Why is it assumed fighters from 12-15 round eras cant go 45rounds?

[Dempsey1238]

Rounds were 3 min rounds once the gloves were put on.

Corbett Fitz, Gans Nelson, Johnson Jeff, all fought 3 min rounds, with a min break in between rounds as is the case with today.

The Barekuck era is other matter though.

[Mendoza]

Originally Posted by Sonny's jab

Which fighters went 45 (3 min.) rounds anyway ?

Tommy Ryan, Sullivan, McVey, Jeanette and a few others went 45+ rounds.

[janitor]

Originally Posted by Mendoza

Tommy Ryan, Sullivan, McVey, Jeanette and a few others went 45+ rounds.

Throw in George Dixon Kid Lavigne Jim Corbett and Peter Jackson.

Batt Nelson twice went 42 before being DQd and TKOd respectivley.

Torpedo Billy Murphy went 40.

[McGrain]

Originally Posted by janitor

Batt Nelson twice went 42 before being DQd and TKOd respectivley.

DQ'd after fighting 42 rounds, bet that felt good.

And he probably couldn't even get a hot shower afterwards.

[janitor]

Originally Posted by McGrain

DQ'd after fighting 42 rounds, bet that felt good.

And he probably couldn't even get a hot shower afterwards.

Probably not.

Needless to say a lot more all time greats have participated in a fight scheduled for 45 rounds than have completed one. In practical terms 45 rounds generaly meant a fight to the finish.

It was only with the introduction of 20 round fights that world class fighters were consistently able to last the distance unless actualy knocked out by the efforts of the other fighter.

[janitor]

[quote]

Originally Posted by bravecubs

Mendoza,Mcgrain, Janitor,Dempsey, so good to be here!! Where do we start the modern era?

Now your asking.

Darn that raises another? I know Rock ,Vandef(stud),Duran , Sweet Pea (with ease ) could go 20-45. Ive got a Baer-King Levinsky Reno fight early30s went 20 rds.110 degree heat! maxie was young . Young people today grow up quicker & stronger!! Dont know boxing has thatGREAT MYSTERY about it!! ..PEACE!!!

As you say a 20 round bout is a considerable endurance test. Even so it was quite common for a 20 round fight between two world class fighters to go the distance especialy given that TKOs were rarer. A 45 round bout almost never went the distance. 45 rounds was just a way of saying that they would duke it out untill sombody couldnt continue.

So to answer your first question I think the modern era came of age when 20 round bouts became the norm and there was a definite cut off point that could be reached.

The question would not be whether Duran, Whitaker et al could go 45 rounds but whether they could go 20-30. If they could get past 20 they would have a good chance of outlasting the fighters of that period.

[janitor]

Originally Posted by bravecubs

Janitor, right!! What do we think of those 1890 fights Kid Lavignewent D77, D55 rds. George Siddons 1887 Im wondering wher those 3min. rds.?Im not historian isnt it odd , wasnt boxing outlawed (believe WALKER law) like NY, & CAL. that some places fights wher allowed only to go 4 rds . But getting back to the Question , I think Duran could endure 25 EASY!!! I believe Sullivan would still be great John L. ...

3 minute rounds came in with the Queensbury rules so guys like Lavigne realy were fighting 50+ 3 minute rounds.

The legal status of boxing was a bit of a grey area around the time. Somtimes the police turned a blind eye. Somtimes they intervened only when things got ugly.

[mr. magoo]

I can't even begin to imagine how busted up two guys had to be after fighting for 40+ rounds. Every inch of your body had to ache for weeks following the fight. Their jaws were probably so battered and faces so swollen that even trying to eat anything must have been a bitch. That says nothing about the exhaustion. Good thing those days are over, or a lot of guys would have wound up dying.

[Dempsey1238]

Come on, I think Wlad and Iggy could have went the entire 45 round fight pace, with out much injury on one or the other.

There was hardly no punching at all, with Wlad landed 2 or 3 punchings a round, and Iggy nothing lol.

[janitor]

Originally Posted by mr. magoo

I can't even begin to imagine how busted up two guys had to be after fighting for 40+ rounds. Every inch of your body had to ache for weeks following the fight. Their jaws were probably so battered and faces so swollen that even trying to eat anything must have been a bitch. That says nothing about the exhaustion. Good thing those days are over, or a lot of guys would have wound up dying.

Unfortunately a lot of these guys paid a verry heavy price for fighting this way. They either died verry young or ended up in nursing homes.

Nelson and Wolgast who probably set the record for the greatest number of punches thrown in a boxing match both ended up as basket cases at a verry young age.

It is a blessing that fights of this type are a thing of the past.

[Senya13]

Originally Posted by janitor

Bat Nelson and Ad Wolgast averaged 85 punches per round each over the course of a 42 round fight scheduled to go 45.

What is the source of your information?

[Senya13]

Ah, found it, it's from [Only registered and activated users can see links. ].
But he only attributes Nelson with throwing 85 punches per round, not both.
There are a couple of problems, though.

Michael Hunnicut agrees, saying it is “the best fight I have ever seen on film.” They fought to the 42nd round. Nelson, a swarmer, like Ricky Hatton, averaged 85 punches a round. He threw 90 in the 30th round.

They slowed in the 39th. Nelson, the loser, threw 70. These guys threw just as many punches-a-round as one sees in a 12-rounder today, but they did it for over 40!

The fight ended in 40th round, not in 42th (source: Oakland Tribune's sports editor Eddie Smith, who was the referee of this fight; and two round by round reports, one from San Francisco Call and another wire report in many newspapers). I just corrected this thing at boxrec, but it obviously shows that Monte Cox did not read any fight reports about this bout when he wrote the above article. The error may be coming from Conley-Attell fight the same day in Los Angeles going 42 rounds.

According to all sources, Nelson was too exhausted to throw many punches from 30th round on, some go as far as claiming he started showing signs of tiredness by 20th round already. By 38th round he is all but out (one of his seconds wanted to throw up the sponge in 34th, and then again in 38th round, but was prevented).

Eddie Smith noted:
It has always been a custom for Nelson to run to his corner at the end of every round, and during the last rounds of yesterday's contest when he was so tired that he could not start a run he would throw himself forward in such a position that when he lost his balance his tired legs would have to jog along at a rapid rate to keep him from falling.

San Francisco Call:
The last 10 rounds of the fight Wolgast should or could have departed from his carefully planned method of battle and sailed in and possibly dropped the champion. Nelson was too tired to raise his arms. He had to content himself with occasionally chopping down a punch--it was too much to raise his arms shoulder high.


And last thing, I believe the film of the fight that has been preserved, is not complete, am I wrong? I only have very short highlights myself.

[janitor]

Originally Posted by Senya13

Ah, found it, it's from [Only registered and activated users can see links. ].
But he only attributes Nelson with throwing 85 punches per round, not both.
There are a couple of problems, though.



The fight ended in 40th round, not in 42th (source: Oakland Tribune's sports editor Eddie Smith, who was the referee of this fight; and two round by round reports, one from San Francisco Call and another wire report in many newspapers). I just corrected this thing at boxrec, but it obviously shows that Monte Cox did not read any fight reports about this bout when he wrote the above article. The error may be coming from Conley-Attell fight the same day in Los Angeles going 42 rounds.

According to all sources, Nelson was too exhausted to throw many punches from 30th round on, some go as far as claiming he started showing signs of tiredness by 20th round already. By 38th round he is all but out (one of his seconds wanted to throw up the sponge in 34th, and then again in 38th round, but was prevented).

Eddie Smith noted:
It has always been a custom for Nelson to run to his corner at the end of every round, and during the last rounds of yesterday's contest when he was so tired that he could not start a run he would throw himself forward in such a position that when he lost his balance his tired legs would have to jog along at a rapid rate to keep him from falling.

San Francisco Call:
The last 10 rounds of the fight Wolgast should or could have departed from his carefully planned method of battle and sailed in and possibly dropped the champion. Nelson was too tired to raise his arms. He had to content himself with occasionally chopping down a punch--it was too much to raise his arms shoulder high.


And last thing, I believe the film of the fight that has been preserved, is not complete, am I wrong? I only have very short highlights myself.

Michael Hunnicut claims to have watched the entire fight and counted the punches. It is fair to say that he has probably done more direct analytical study of early film than any other historian. It is possible that he has access to versions of the fight not available to meer mortals like us.

[Senya13]

Sorry, but the story about Nelson throwing 70 punches in 39th round doesn't stand up the test against all I've read about this fight, neither does the story about 90 punches in 30th round. My guess is he saw the limited footage and just averaged the rounds he had seen (probably mostly the early rounds where Nelson was still active) to the whole fight, as for those two separate rounds, he just made them up (as nobody has the footage the test the credibility of his claims).

[janitor]

Originally Posted by Senya13

Sorry, but the story about Nelson throwing 70 punches in 39th round doesn't stand up the test against all I've read about this fight, neither does the story about 90 punches in 30th round. My guess is he saw the limited footage and just averaged the rounds he had seen (probably mostly the early rounds where Nelson was still active) to the whole fight, as for those two separate rounds, he just made them up (as nobody has the footage the test the credibility of his claims).

He specificaly states that that number of punches was thrown on film in those rounds.

Now either he is lying or that is how it happened. If the film evidence contradicts the newspaper acounts on the number of punches thrown then we have to go with the film evidence.