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Old 02-29-2008, 10:49 AM   #1
Mendoza
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Default Final top heavyweight punchers lists. 12, 40, and 60!

Here are my top 12, 40 and 60 heavyweight punchers. The top 12 is the dynamite dozen. The top 40 is more of a pure punchers list, the top 60 is more fan friendly and includes several bubble type of candidates.

A few things.

The list are in a mostly in a Chronological order. This means old timers will be listed first. It does not mean I think Sullvian hits harder than Tyson or Shavers! I hope this is clear.

Criterion: This is a pure punching power type of list. The below six categories factor in making it ot not.

1 ) Fighter should have a high knock out percentage in his wins. We are grading power here, not chins. Punchers should usually stop journeyman type of opponents. If they do not, it is a negative against them.

2 ) KO's in non-heavyweight divisions do not count, but not stopping fighters in lower weight divisions is viewed as a slight negative. Power rarely increases when fighters move up in weight classes.

3 ) Stopping hard to stop contender’s in their primes or near primes matters. So do one punch knockouts, and devastating knockouts that are far more than ten counts.

4 ) Quality of competition is considered. Some fighters fought much harder to hit and stop fighters than others.

5 ) Fighters who proved their power on film by hitting opponents or heavy bags with great force cement their status

6) Guys with numerous testimonials about their punching power are given extra considerations. This is especially true for fighters I have no seen on film.

The most qualified the fighters will rank highly in all six categories!

With that said here are lists.

Up first. The Fan’s top 60 all time punchers:

1. Sullivan
2. Fitzsimmons
3. Maher
4. Slavin
5. T. Shakrey
6. Jeffries
7. McVey
8. Langford
9. Wills
10. Willard
11. Fulton
12. Dempsey
13. G. Godfrey
14. Fripo
15. Schmeling
16. J. Louis
17. Lem Franklin
18. Turkey Thompson
19. M. Baer
20. B Baer
21. C. Williams
22. Ray
23. Satterfield
24. Gomez
25 Moore
26. Marciano
27. Patterson
28. Johansson
29. Liston
30. Frazier
31. Mac Foster
32 Foreman
33. Shavers
34 Lyle
35. Norton
36. Witherspoon
37. Cooney
38. Page
39 Coetzee
40. J Smith
41. Tyson
42. Bruno
43. Ruddock
44 Bowe
45. Morrison
46 Morrer
47. Briggs
48. Ibebuchi
49. Tua
50. C. Sanders
51. Hide
52. L. Lewis
53. McCall
54 Rhaman
55 Maskeav
56. V Klitschko
57. W Klitschko
58. Brewster
59. Peter
60 Virchis

Just missing the cut, and very arguable: Pat Killen, Lee Q Murray, Curtis Sheppard, Jose Urtrain, Jeff Merrit, Roy Williams ,Kallie Knotzee ,John Tate, Lem Franklin, Joe Choynski, and Buster Douglas. These guys would be in the top 75.

Last edited by Mendoza; 02-29-2008 at 11:20 AM.
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Old 02-29-2008, 10:56 AM   #2
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Default Re: Final top heavyweight punchers lists. 12, 40, and 60!

Top 40 all time heavyweight punchers. Same rules:

The list is mostly in a Chronological order. This means old timers will be listed first. It does not mean I think. Sullvian hits harder than Tyson or Shavers! I hope this is clear.

Criterion: This is a pure punching power type of list! The below five categories.

1 ) Fighter should have a high knock out percentage in his wins. We are grading power here, not chins. Punchers should usually stop journeyman type of opponents. If they do not, it is a negative against them.

2 ) KO's in non-heavyweight divisions do not count, but not stopping fighters in lower weight divisions is viewed as a slight negative. Power rarely increases when fighters move up in weight classes.

3 ) Stopping hard to stop contender’s in their primes or near primes matters. So do devastating knockouts that are far more than ten counts.

4 ) Quality of competition is considered. Some fighters fought much harder to hit and stop fighters than others.

5 ) Fighters who proved their power on film by hitting opponents or heavy bags with great force cement their status

6) Guys with numerous testimonials about their punching power are given extra considerations. This is especially true for fighters I have no seen on film.

The most qualified the fighters will rank highly in all six categories!

With that said here is the top 40 all time heavyweight punchers list:

1. Sullivan
2. Fitzsimmons
3. Maher
4. Slavin
5. Jeffries
6. McVey
7. Langford
8. Wills
9. Dempsey
10. Fripo
11 J. Louis
12. M. Baer
13. B Baer
14. Ray
15 Marciano
16. Patterson
17. Johansson
18. Liston
19. Frazier
20 Foreman
21. Shavers
22 Lyle
23 Witherspoon
24. Cooney
25. Page
26. Tyson
27. Bruno
28. Ruddock
29 Bowe
30. Morrison
31 Morrer
32. Briggs
33. Ibebuchi
34. Tua
35 C. Sanders
36. L. Lewis
37 Maskeav
38. V Klitschko
39. W Klitschko
40. Brewster


Just missing the cut, and very arguable: Everyone not listed, but in the top 60.

Last edited by Mendoza; 02-29-2008 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 02-29-2008, 11:05 AM   #3
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Default Re: Final top heavyweight punchers lists. 12, 40, and 60!

The dynamite dozen list. To me this was the toughest one to make.


The list is in Chronological order. This means old timers will be listed first. It does not mean I think. Sullvian hits harder than Tyson or Shavers! I hope this is clear.

Criterion: This is a pure punching power type of list! The below five categories.

1 ) Fighter should have a high knock out percentage in his wins. We are grading power here, not chins. Punchers should usually stop journeyman type of opponents. If they do not, it is a negative against them.

2 ) KO's in non-heavyweight divisions do not count, but not stopping fighters in lower weight divisions is viewed as a slight negative. Power rarely increases when fighters move up in weight classes.

3 ) Stopping hard to stop contender’s in their primes or near primes matters. So do devastating knockouts that are far more than ten counts.

4 ) Quality of competition is considered. Some fighters fought much harder to hit and stop fighters than others.

5 ) Fighters who proved their power on film by hitting opponents or heavy bags with great force cement their status

6) Guys with numerous testimonials about their punching power are given extra considerations. This is especially true for fighters I have no seen on film.

The most qualified the fighters will rank highly in all six categories!

With that said here is the top 12 dynamaite dozen:

1. Jeffries
2. Dempsey
3. J. Louis
4. M. Baer
5. Marciano
6. Liston
7. Foreman
8. Shavers
9. Tyson
10. Tua
11. L. Lewis
12. W Klitschko

Just missing the cut, and arguable: Everyone not listed here, but in the top 40.
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Old 02-29-2008, 05:04 PM   #4
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Default Re: Final top heavyweight punchers lists. 12, 40, and 60!

Excellent work, well done. It is as you know the nature of these things for one to look for omissions or errors in these type of lists and for me the big No-No is Jim Jeffries as a top 12 (or maybe top 40 even) puncher. He rarely knocked anyone senseless and fairly chinny guys like McCoy, Choynski, Ruhlin, Fitz either went the distance with him or lasted a long time. Sharkey lasted twice but while Tom was durable Choynski, Fitz, Ruhlin and Maher had him in a lot more trouble. Don't get me wrong, Jeff was a very effective aggressive ATTRITIONAL attacker but top 12 puncher? I for one can't see it.
Never-the-less thought provoking stuff and interesting.
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Old 02-29-2008, 05:30 PM   #5
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Default Re: Final top heavyweight punchers lists. 12, 40, and 60!

I was tempted to put in Morrison, V Klitschko, and a few others in the top 12, but in the end, I felt the top 12 had to be famous and reflect every era.
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Old 02-29-2008, 05:46 PM   #6
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Default Re: Final top heavyweight punchers lists. 12, 40, and 60!

Maybe Maher should be your "early" big hitter. He had Sharkey, Choynski, Fitz, Ruhlin in bigger trouble than Jeff, routinely knocked second tier fighters senseless, and all these without the physical size, speed and boxing ability of Jeffries.
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Old 02-29-2008, 06:18 PM   #7
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Default Re: Final top heavyweight punchers lists. 12, 40, and 60!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattdonnellon
Maybe Maher should be your "early" big hitter. He had Sharkey, Choynski, Fitz, Ruhlin in bigger trouble than Jeff, routinely knocked second tier fighters senseless, and all these without the physical size, speed and boxing ability of Jeffries.
Disagree. Let's look at the common opponents. Maher could not Ko Fitz, floor Shareky, Ko Ruhlin, or KO Munroe.

Jeffries did Ko Fitz 2x, Floor Shrakey 3x, KO Ruhlin, and KO Munore.

The only guy Maher put away that Jeffries did not was Choynski.

I don't think Maher is top 12. Top 40, Ok, but based on reputation more so than results.
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Old 02-29-2008, 06:25 PM   #8
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Default Re: Final top heavyweight punchers lists. 12, 40, and 60!

So, was Jeffries a harder hitter than Fitzsimmons then ?
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Old 02-29-2008, 06:47 PM   #9
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Default Re: Final top heavyweight punchers lists. 12, 40, and 60!

Maher did floor Sharkey (six count in round 7), ko'd Ruhlin(admitedely when Gus was a novice) he had Fitz out in the first round of their first bout but was denied by an early bell-Fitz incidently said Maher had him in the greatest trouble in a 1903 interview-and as for Monroe Maher was way past his best and took the fight only as an opponent. Dispite this, he nearly ko'd Jack in the second when he floored him (some say accidently!).
The other opponents -Fitz, Sharkey, Ruhlin ,Choynsky-were all younger when they faced Maher. Jeffries was a much better fighter than Peter so it is no surprise that he got better results against some common opponents but Jeff rarely took out a decent opponent early. O'Donnell, Slavin, Goddard, Craig, Godfrey, Kennedy, C.C.Smith and others generally were put to sleep by Maher.
But I can agree to disagree.

Last edited by Mercury4; 03-10-2007 at 06:04 AM.
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Old 03-01-2008, 10:45 AM   #10
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Default Re: Final top heavyweight punchers lists. 12, 40, and 60!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny's jab
So, was Jeffries a harder hitter than Fitzsimmons then ?
I know of no observer who saw both Fitzsimmons and Jeffries who considered Jeff the harder puncher. Many, notably Hype Igoe and Jack London, were explicit in considering Fitz the more explosive puncher. Performances against common opponents certainly favor Fitz.

Corbett:
Fitz-----KO 14
Jeff-----KO 23, KO 10

Sharkey:
Fitz-----LF 8, KO 2 (Sharkey was dropped and counted out in the 8th round and the referee then decided to DQ Fitz--Few agreed with this decision. The second fight was a clean knockout.
Jeff-----W 20, W 25

Ruhlin:
Fitz-----KO 6
Jeff-----Draw 20, KO 5
Fitz put Ruhlin down for the count and then some. Ruhlin retired against Jeff in their second fight.

Choynski:
Fitz-----Draw 5 (Choynski was down several times. He was flat on his back at the end when the sheriff stopped the fight)
Jeff-----Draw 20

Jeff had 7 fights against these men, with five wins and two draws, scoring three knockouts. Fitz had five fights, with three wins, a DQ loss, and a draw, also with three knockouts, but Fitz was jobbed out of KO wins in the Choynski and first Sharkey fights. He should have had KO wins in all five bouts.
In Jeff's defense, one could argue he was green for the Choynski and first Ruhlin fights.
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Old 03-01-2008, 11:02 AM   #11
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Default Re: Final top heavyweight punchers lists. 12, 40, and 60!

Mendoza--I raised this issue before, but, frankly, I don't understand how any serious observer can consider Tommy Gomez a superior puncher to Ezzard Charles. Gomez was a provincial fighter who built his record against third and fourth raters. His few forays into top-level competition, Walcott, Oma, Satterfield, ended in defeats. He might have defeated 2 or 3 men who were ranked when he fought them. Charles fought 58 bouts against rated opposition and at least 75 against men who were rated at one time or another. He ko'd an imposing list of rated heavyweights--Jimmy Bivins, Elmer Ray, Joe Baksi, Pat Valentino, Gus Lesnevich, Freddie Beshore, Lee Oma, Rex Layne, Joe Kahut, Bernie Reynolds, Tommy Harrison, Coley Wallace, and Bob Satterfield, as well as Archie Moore, were all top ten heavyweights at one time or another. You can say what you want about percentages against general opposition, but you do not pick George Chuvalo and Bob Cleroux over Johansson and Patterson, despite their higher career knockout percentages. Why the standard reverses for Charles is difficult to understand other than having an ax to grind. Charles is a much better candidate than his lesser contemporary Gomez, as well as Ray, whom Charles cleanly knocked out.

Last edited by OLD FOGEY; 03-01-2008 at 11:49 AM.
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Old 03-01-2008, 05:37 PM   #12
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Default Re: Final top heavyweight punchers lists. 12, 40, and 60!

Tony Galento didn't make the top 60 list?
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Old 03-02-2008, 08:03 PM   #13
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Default Re: Final top heavyweight punchers lists. 12, 40, and 60!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny's jab
So, was Jeffries a harder hitter than Fitzsimmons then ?
Some say yes. Others say no. Jeffries did knock out better fighters, always scored at least one knockdown in all of his matches ( save the comeback ) and owns the fastest linear title bout KO win.

I took some liberty on the dynamite dozen in terms of fame and name recognition. For example, I think Morrison hit harder than a few people on the list but did not choose to list him.
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Old 03-02-2008, 08:07 PM   #14
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Default Re: Final top heavyweight punchers lists. 12, 40, and 60!

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD FOGEY
Mendoza--I raised this issue before, but, frankly, I don't understand how any serious observer can consider Tommy Gomez a superior puncher to Ezzard Charles. Gomez was a provincial fighter who built his record against third and fourth raters. His few forays into top-level competition, Walcott, Oma, Satterfield, ended in defeats. He might have defeated 2 or 3 men who were ranked when he fought them. Charles fought 58 bouts against rated opposition and at least 75 against men who were rated at one time or another. He ko'd an imposing list of rated heavyweights--Jimmy Bivins, Elmer Ray, Joe Baksi, Pat Valentino, Gus Lesnevich, Freddie Beshore, Lee Oma, Rex Layne, Joe Kahut, Bernie Reynolds, Tommy Harrison, Coley Wallace, and Bob Satterfield, as well as Archie Moore, were all top ten heavyweights at one time or another. You can say what you want about percentages against general opposition, but you do not pick George Chuvalo and Bob Cleroux over Johansson and Patterson, despite their higher career knockout percentages. Why the standard reverses for Charles is difficult to understand other than having an ax to grind. Charles is a much better candidate than his lesser contemporary Gomez, as well as Ray, whom Charles cleanly knocked out.
Charles was an average puncher for heavyweights. Historians today think he did not have a good heavyweight punch and after watching most of his fights I agree. While Charles did score more KO's, it was due to his better skills , stamina, and chin, not superior punching power. I beleive Gomez hit harder. This is a pure punchers list, not a ranked punchers list.
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Old 03-02-2008, 08:45 PM   #15
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Default Re: Final top heavyweight punchers lists. 12, 40, and 60!

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD FOGEY
I know of no observer who saw both Fitzsimmons and Jeffries who considered Jeff the harder puncher. Many, notably Hype Igoe and Jack London, were explicit in considering Fitz the more explosive puncher. Performances against common opponents certainly favor Fitz.

Corbett:
Fitz-----KO 14
Jeff-----KO 23, KO 10

Sharkey:
Fitz-----LF 8, KO 2 (Sharkey was dropped and counted out in the 8th round and the referee then decided to DQ Fitz--Few agreed with this decision. The second fight was a clean knockout.
Jeff-----W 20, W 25

Ruhlin:
Fitz-----KO 6
Jeff-----Draw 20, KO 5
Fitz put Ruhlin down for the count and then some. Ruhlin retired against Jeff in their second fight.

Choynski:
Fitz-----Draw 5 (Choynski was down several times. He was flat on his back at the end when the sheriff stopped the fight)
Jeff-----Draw 20

Jeff had 7 fights against these men, with five wins and two draws, scoring three knockouts. Fitz had five fights, with three wins, a DQ loss, and a draw, also with three knockouts, but Fitz was jobbed out of KO wins in the Choynski and first Sharkey fights. He should have had KO wins in all five bouts.
In Jeff's defense, one could argue he was green for the Choynski and first Ruhlin fights.
Jack Johnson rated Choynsky and Fitz as superior punchers to Jeffries,but its no surpise to me that Mendoza has Jeffries as high as he does,he is after all his biggest fan.The consensus is that Jeffries was a heavy puncher,but not a dynamite one,which I think is reflected in the amount of rounds he usually needed to stop men considerably smaller than himself,he would not make my top 12 ,let alone no 1 .Mendozas list is pretty good I feel, apart from the lack of objectivity about Jeffries.
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