Most overrrated fighters ? (or, who do YOU "underrate"?)

[Little_Mac]

Ezzard Charles and Gene Tunney seem really underrated to me just from what I've noticed on ESB.

[Sweet Pea]

Originally Posted by Maurice

who..me?

So what was the reason for calling him out in the first place?

[Senya13]

Originally Posted by janitor

Not in mine either but if he is in the top 30 he is a great fighter.

Have a [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]. And no, it wasn't that thread that persuaded me that Carpentier is grossly overated, I've thought so long before I read those posts, but they reaffirmed what I thought before.

[NickHudson]

I rate Marciano very highly, particularly in P4P discussions.

Interestingly, I don't disagree with any of your criticisms outlined below!

Its just that his incomparable toughness, mental fortitude, will-to-win, and ability to drive through the pain barrier means those 'issues' have little relevance in the ring, when it counts...

Originally Posted by McGrain

Clumsy.

Small.

Innacurate.

Open.

Odd competition (some very good fighters, but none at their best, no cracking big men)

If you show me a list of great heavyweights I can't pick him to beat any of them, honestly, for 2/3. Let's say a top 15 or something.

Now, your own excellent arguments, Luigi's input and Chris' wonderful video mean that Rocky has actually bullied his way into my top ten (ESB in action) but I still feel disgust when I see him at #3 on some HW list, top 30 on some p4p lists...so I see him as grossly overated.

ON THE OTHER HAND, a load of smart guys rate him higher than me...so I fear I may underate him.

[Addie]

Muhammad Ali - Was probably the best HW ever based on his opposition and who he beat. But the greatest fighter of all-time? That mantra was not exactly correct.

Nobody says he is the greatest fighter of all time, and neither does Ali.

Sugar Ray Leonard - Lost the second fight to Hearns, may have really lost to Hagler, was dropped by a journeyman named Donny LaLonde before coming back to win. Was thrashed by Terry Norris and knocked out by the light-hitting Hector Camacho in his final fight. Great fighter but too many blemishes and the Hagler fight was very contraversial.

Unbelievable. The hearns draw, and losses to Camacho and Terry Norris was when he was past his prime, and in the last two cases, shot. LaLonda was champion, a light heavyweight, and Leonard knocked him out. Leonard also beat 4 HOF's. He isn't overrated, he's underrated.

[Russell]

Calling Leonard underrated is pretty ridiculous, honestly.

Man gets plenty of credit.

[Addie]

Originally Posted by Russell

Calling Leonard underrated is pretty ridiculous, honestly.

Man gets plenty of credit.

Not on this board he don't. Calling him overrated is more ridiclious. With the sport of boxing, so-called fans are full of shit half of the time. It's testament to Leonard's career, that the only way for fans to pick it a part is by bringing up his losses when he was shot.

[Sonny Carson]

Originally Posted by Sardu

Overrated:

Roy Jones jr. - Great ability but safety-first style. Seldom took risks and let some inferior opposition hang around too long in fights. Chin proved later on to be suspect. Was the Wladimir Klitschko of his time. Great fighter and effective but safety first all the way. I don't hear anyone calling Klitschko an all time great as they often do Jones.


Sugar Ray Robinson - People always show him kayoing Fullmer with one shot. They seldom mention that Fullmer beat beat Robinson twice and had one draw. He was the greatest welterweight ever but he is overrated at MW IMO.

Harry Wills - The revisionists frequently mention Wills being "ducked" by Dempsey. Complete nonsense. The fight was signed and fell through for financial reasons and the generally racist attitude of the day. If the fight was not going to be financially advantageous then why would Dempsey or Wills want it to happen? Wills was being handily beaten by Jack Sharkey before fouling out in 1926.

Muhammad Ali - Was probably the best HW ever based on his opposition and who he beat. But the greatest fighter of all-time? That mantra was not exactly correct.

Sugar Ray Leonard - Lost the second fight to Hearns, may have really lost to Hagler, was dropped by a journeyman named Donny LaLonde before coming back to win. Was thrashed by Terry Norris and knocked out by the light-hitting Hector Camacho in his final fight. Great fighter but too many blemishes and the Hagler fight was very contraversial.


Underrated:

Sam Langford - At just 5-7 and about 180lbs. frequently took down heavyweights. Was avoided by Dempsey's people early in Jack's career. May have very well been the real greatest of all-time.

Benny Leonard - The Ghetto wizard may have even been a better lightweight than the great Roberto Duran. He was the best PFP of his day in a time when boxing was the undisputed #1 sport in america.

Jimmy Wilde - The pint-sized Welshman was considered to be the greatest puncher of all-time for his size by many who watched him.

Eder Jofre - Brazillian great is still grossly overlooked. People tend to mention more Monzon, Chavez, Duran, etc, in the pantheon of South American greats. This man is right there with them IMO.

Charley Burly - Archie Moore claims he was the best he ever fought. Avoided like the plague during the time because of racial prejudice and because he just made great fighters look inept.

Rocky Marciano - Only undefeated HW champ is denigrated for being around during weak era. Walcott, Charles, Louis, Moore are ATG's and hall of famers. Rocky cleaned out division on the was up beating fine fighters like Vingo, LaStarza (twice), Savold, Layne, an the excellent LHWT Harry "kid" Mathews.

This guy's an idiot.

[sthomas]

Originally Posted by selfkill

Nobody says he is the greatest fighter of all time, and neither does Ali.


Unbelievable. The hearns draw, and losses to Camacho and Terry Norris was when he was past his prime, and in the last two cases, shot. LaLonda was champion, a light heavyweight, and Leonard knocked him out. Leonard also beat 4 HOF's. He isn't overrated, he's underrated.

1) I say Ali is the GOAT

2) Great point about Leonard's critic.

[Outboxer]

Originally Posted by selfkill

It's testament to Leonard's career, that the only way for fans to pick it a part is by bringing up his losses when he was shot.

Truth.

Please, if you're going to bash him, at least try and pick apart his career before he was past his prime/shot. Otherwise it just comes across as utterly silly.

[Bokaj]

Agree. Hard to overrate a guy who beat Duran and Hearns and came back from a long lay-off to beat Hagler. A 3-1-1 against the ATG:s he met ain't bad (even if I personally think it should have been 3-2).

[Sardu]

Originally Posted by Sonny Carson

This guy's an idiot.

I don't care what you think. Fuck you.

[ChrisPontius]

Originally Posted by Sardu

Harry Wills - The revisionists frequently mention Wills being "ducked" by Dempsey. Complete nonsense. The fight was signed and fell through for financial reasons and the generally racist attitude of the day. If the fight was not going to be financially advantageous then why would Dempsey or Wills want it to happen? Wills was being handily beaten by Jack Sharkey before fouling out in 1926.

Regardless of whether or not you think Dempsey's management was avoiding him, what does it change about his standing? He was still undefeated for 8 or so years, holding the #1 contender spot for an enormous amount of time fighting the guys Dempsey wouldn't fight.

[Sardu]

Overrated:

Jack Dempsey - Was essentially knocked out by a lumbering lummox from Argentina with ZERO skill. Lost to another tomato can named "Fireman" Jim Flynn. Avoided Langford and Wills.

Joe Frazier - Struggled to defeat a light-hitting heavyweight named Muhammad Ali in 1971. Even lost to this decidedly ordinary fighter TWICE. Finally hit his stride in 1981 when he made a comeback and held the ferocious and formidable Floyd 'Jumbo' Cummings to a hard-earned draw.

James J Corbett - Liked to wear thongs in the ring and loved to show off his buns. Sported a weggie in the entire fight with Bob Fitzsimmons when he lost the heavyweight title.

Gerry Cooney - They billed his fight with George Foreman as being "the Preacher vs the Puncher." The preacher vs the punching bag would have been more appropriate.

Ken Norton - Very good fighter who did well against Ali, Holmes, Young but failed miserably against big punchers - Foreman, Shavers, Cooney.

[Sardu]

Underrated:

Courage Tshabalala - Feared zulu tribesman who was involved in the fight of the year in 1997. A brawl with Darroll 'Doin' Damage' Wilson where he scored several knockdowns but still came out on the losing end.


Jumbo Cummings - Perfecting biting opponents LONG before Golota and Tyson stole his patented manuever. Held the great Joe Frazier to a contraversial draw when Joe had reached his peak in 1981.

'Hurricane' Peter McNeely - Who can ever forget McNeely enveloping Tyson in a "cocoon of horror" before getting prematurely stopped himself in 1995. His mobbed-up manager was rumored to have bet on Tyson and that is why he went up in the ring and stopped it himself. Tyson still claims McNeely was the greatest fighter he ever fought. Career went downhill from that zenith.

Johnny Boudreux - Was involved in a contraversial fight in 1977 with Scott LeDoux. LeDoux was so incensed he 'accidently' knocked Howard Cosell's toupee off his head on the air after being jobbed out of the verdict.

Scott LeDoux - Had a title fight prematurely halted against Larry Holmes in 1980 or so. This guy had a chin that Chuvalo WISHED he had!

Kallie Knoetze (pronounced - cannot see) - Was on the cover of Boxing Illustrated in 1978 with the healine, "Is he the new Marciano?" The answer of course was no. But he was still one helluva puncher!