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Old 12-29-2013, 06:11 PM   #1
withoutwire
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Default Sugar Ray Robinson

If you polled 1000 boxing fans as to who is the greatest, chances are this man comes out on top.

Anyway, I'm reading a boxing book from 1955 that details all the great champions from boxing's early days. When the book was written SRR's career was as good as done; he fought on for years but his best work was done by this time.

The author discusses SRR's career as well as the other greats, but doesn't highlight SRR as exceptionally great compared to some others in the book which he praises in detail.

So does anyone here know whether at the time of his peak, was SRR considered a true great, one of the greatest ever if not the greatest, or was this an accolade conferred upon him many years later?
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Old 12-29-2013, 06:46 PM   #2
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Robinson

Quote:
Originally Posted by withoutwire View Post
If you polled 1000 boxing fans as to who is the greatest, chances are this man comes out on top.

Anyway, I'm reading a boxing book from 1955 that details all the great champions from boxing's early days. When the book was written SRR's career was as good as done; he fought on for years but his best work was done by this time.

The author discusses SRR's career as well as the other greats, but doesn't highlight SRR as exceptionally great compared to some others in the book which he praises in detail.

So does anyone here know whether at the time of his peak, was SRR considered a true great, one of the greatest ever if not the greatest, or was this an accolade conferred upon him many years later?
I HAVE seen Ray Robinson from his early days as a welterweight in the
early 1940s, and let ne assure you from the day SRR turned pro in 1940
he was already considered an alltime great by veteran boxing people....
Too darn bad we have no film of Robinson as a young welterweight...He had to be the greatest all around fighter of alltimes along with the
lightweight Benny Leonard....If the author you cite doesn't agree with SRR
as an immortal, put the book down and read what his contemporaries
said about him...Was he the greatest P4P boxer of alltime ? No in my opinion. A chap named Harry Greb holds that distinction....
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Old 12-29-2013, 07:13 PM   #3
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Robinson

Greb and SRR are always foremost in my mind when I consider the P4P greats.

Good to see his skills were acknowledged in his time. Did you see SRR live? I also find it baffling that there is no tape from his welterweight days considering we have tape of ealrier fights eg Tunney vs Dempsey in 1926
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Old 12-29-2013, 07:17 PM   #4
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Robinson

I don't have him as p4p greatest either, though I don't definitively have that position set.
As for the perception, it seems as if it has always been that he is one of the greatest ever, and with that I do agree. However, it seems as time goes on he is held in higher regard. Nothing wrong with that, but it does kind of annoy me, when casual fans label him as GOAT, despite never seeing him fight and not being able to name his opponents.
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Old 12-29-2013, 09:08 PM   #5
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Robinson

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Originally Posted by withoutwire View Post
Greb and SRR are always foremost in my mind when I consider the P4P greats.

Good to see his skills were acknowledged in his time. Did you see SRR live? I also find it baffling that there is no tape from his welterweight days considering we have tape of ealrier fights eg Tunney vs Dempsey in 1926
Yes, I have seen Ray Robinson as a welterweight ringside many times and as a MW when he kod Randy Turpin in 1951 at the Polo Grounds....No
fighter since his prime comes close to SRR as a fighter P4P..,.
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Old 12-29-2013, 09:27 PM   #6
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Robinson

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Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
Yes, I have seen Ray Robinson as a welterweight ringside many times and as a MW when he kod Randy Turpin in 1951 at the Polo Grounds....No
fighter since his prime comes close to SRR as a fighter P4P..,.

Hey Burt, let's put a granite chin on Tippy Larkin and put him into the ring with a 1941 140-pound Ray Robinson...

Who ya' got!
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Old 12-29-2013, 09:30 PM   #7
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Robinson

Out of curiosity, who was the author?
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Old 12-29-2013, 09:58 PM   #8
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Robinson

There was a 1950 article arguing that SRR was already the greatest of all time in the Ring Magazine.
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Old 12-29-2013, 10:03 PM   #9
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Robinson

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Hey Burt, let's put a granite chin on Tippy Larkin and put him into the ring with a 1941 140-pound Ray Robinson...

Who ya' got!
SRR on points, even though the question wasn't aimed at me. The guy was just too good at every aspect of boxing.

After all you DON'T get labelled as the best fighter in the world if you're a slouch. ( In Ray's case it was called pound for pound, best in the WORLD ) do you?

The man was just special.
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Old 12-29-2013, 11:04 PM   #10
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Robinson

Quote:
Originally Posted by withoutwire View Post
If you polled 1000 boxing fans as to who is the greatest, chances are this man comes out on top.

Anyway, I'm reading a boxing book from 1955 that details all the great champions from boxing's early days. When the book was written SRR's career was as good as done; he fought on for years but his best work was done by this time.

The author discusses SRR's career as well as the other greats, but doesn't highlight SRR as exceptionally great compared to some others in the book which he praises in detail.

So does anyone here know whether at the time of his peak, was SRR considered a true great, one of the greatest ever if not the greatest, or was this an accolade conferred upon him many years later?


Would you please give details as to what book you are reading?


Over the years I heard many commentators say he was the best P4P of all time and that this reputation was established well before the 1960s. My dad whose passion in life was pro boxing, and who hung out at the old St Nick and Eastern Pkway, told me of how he and others were awed by SRR's highly intense training and boxing. Among his fellow boxing fanatics no one enjoyed a greater reputation than Sugar Ray.
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Old 12-29-2013, 11:11 PM   #11
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Robinson

Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleRed View Post
There was a 1950 article arguing that SRR was already the greatest of all time in the Ring Magazine.


Nat Fleischer wrote in the Feb. 1951, Ring Magazine, that in the year 1950 “Robinson hit the spotlight as the greatest all around fighter, pound for pound, in any division.” They have been saying it about Robinson ever since. The term “pound for pound” has come to exemplify the stature of Ray Robinson as the greatest fighter in boxing history.


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Old 12-29-2013, 11:36 PM   #12
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Robinson

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Originally Posted by the_bigunit View Post
Hey Burt, let's put a granite chin on Tippy Larkin and put him into the ring with a 1941 140-pound Ray Robinson...

Who ya' got!
WOW bg,Tippy Larkin a name from the distant past...Tippy was such a master boxer that in over 100 fights he was hardly ever outpointed.
So good a master boxer puncher he won about every round from Billy Graham and Willie Joyce. To beat him you had to knock him out as did
only heavy punchers like Lew Jenkins, Beau Jack, Al Bummy Davis and Henry Armstrong...But Tippy had a glass chin otherwise he would be in the HOF. As to SRR vs Tippy with a Billy Graham chin at 140 ? SRR hit too fast
and was a greater puncher....No fighter I ever saw impressed me like the WW SRR....
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Old 12-29-2013, 11:55 PM   #13
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Robinson

Quote:
Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
WOW bg,Tippy Larkin a name from the distant past...Tippy was such a master boxer that in over 100 fights he was hardly ever outpointed.
So good a master boxer puncher he won about every round from Billy Graham and Willie Joyce. To beat him you had to knock him out as did
only heavy punchers like Lew Jenkins, Beau Jack, Al Bummy Davis and Henry Armstrong...But Tippy had a glass chin otherwise he would be in the HOF. As to SRR vs Tippy with a Billy Graham chin at 140 ? SRR hit too fast
and was a greater puncher....No fighter I ever saw impressed me like the WW SRR....

Good show, Burt. I've always been fascinated with Larkin. He dropped just a single points decision in the final 15 years of his career. That to the dogged Jack Kid Berg.

Larkin even befuddled the one and only Henry Armstrong... For 3 minutes, that is.

I'd kill for footage of the Garfield Gunner.
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Old 12-30-2013, 09:29 AM   #14
burt bienstock
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Robinson

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Originally Posted by spinner View Post
Would you please give details as to what book you are reading?


Over the years I heard many commentators say he was the best P4P of all time and that this reputation was established well before the 1960s. My dad whose passion in life was pro boxing, and who hung out at the old St Nick and Eastern Pkway, told me of how he and others were awed by SRR's highly intense training and boxing. Among his fellow boxing fanatics no one enjoyed a greater reputation than Sugar Ray.
spinner, I lived about 3 blocks away from Eastern Pkwy Arena [the house of upsets], and I went weekly to the bouts there. Probably brushed shoulders with your dad. I also would go to the old St.Nick's Arena...In NYC
those days there was a boxing show every night of the week at least...
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Old 12-30-2013, 01:17 PM   #15
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Robinson

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Originally Posted by fists of fury View Post
Out of curiosity, who was the author?
Quote:
Originally Posted by spinner View Post
Would you please give details as to what book you are reading?
"Big Fight" By Denzel Batchelor. At no point does he disparage SRR, but he just doesn't seem to praise him in as glowing terms as he does others, like Benny Leonard and Jimmy Wilde.

Now that I think of it, he didn't say much on Greb either, and the same with Henry Armstrong
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