Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-30-2013, 06:47 PM   #1
rex11y
newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 47
vCash: 1000
Default Did the change from 15 rounds to 12 rounds usher in the era of super-heavyweights?

I have been pondering this one for a while. Would the 15 round distance offer the advantage to some of the smaller heavyweights in terms of their ability to come on in the later rounds. I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts.
rex11y is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 12-30-2013, 06:53 PM   #2
TBooze
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: South of London
Posts: 10,587
vCash: 469
Default Re: Did the change from 15 rounds to 12 rounds usher in the era of super-heavyweights

No, better nutrition heralded the era of bigger Heavyweights.
TBooze is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2013, 07:04 PM   #3
fists of fury
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: March for Revenge
Posts: 5,725
vCash: 1887
Default Re: Did the change from 15 rounds to 12 rounds usher in the era of super-heavyweights

No, because the super-heavyweight is largely a myth in my opinion. Only four fighters in the past 20 years have had great size and skills to match. (Bowe, Lewis, and the K brothers.)

They're not exactly falling out of trees.

If your definition of a super heavyweight is just a big hulking lug, then that's something else entirely.
fists of fury is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2013, 07:41 PM   #4
choklab
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: bad to the bone and sexy
Posts: 4,982
vCash: 500
Default Re: Did the change from 15 rounds to 12 rounds usher in the era of super-heavyweights

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBooze View Post
No, better nutrition heralded the era of bigger Heavyweights.
A change of pace as well as a change in gloves had as much to do with the heralding of big super heavyweights as a cut in rounds. Taller, slower men who naturaly would have found it tough going against smaller, fast guys who could make more impression with less punches found that smaller guys were easier to catch once they bulked up and had to work even harder to make an impression with bigger gloves on as well. It was like a handicap that suited the longer, naturaly heavy guys.

Better nutrition? I would call it an experimental period where the nutritional "advances" in other sports began to be explored in heavyweight boxing but it only suited the taller fighters. It encumbered everyone else generally.
choklab is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2013, 07:49 PM   #5
choklab
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: bad to the bone and sexy
Posts: 4,982
vCash: 500
Default Re: Did the change from 15 rounds to 12 rounds usher in the era of super-heavyweights

Quote:
Originally Posted by fists of fury View Post
No, because the super-heavyweight is largely a myth in my opinion. Only four fighters in the past 20 years have had great size and skills to match. (Bowe, Lewis, and the K brothers.)

They're not exactly falling out of trees.

If your definition of a super heavyweight is just a big hulking lug, then that's something else entirely.
Largely, the already big, slow guy wanted to get bigger to emphasize his advantage and the faster, athletic guy simply became slower once he refused to give away too much weight against the bigger man.
choklab is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2013, 04:57 AM   #6
My dinner with Conteh
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,999
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Did the change from 15 rounds to 12 rounds usher in the era of super-heavyweights

No, the average weight of heavyweight fights has been going up since the 1950s anyway...when the weight was something around 190lbs, a decade later it was approx 205, then in 1970s it was up to 215, then 220 by the 1980s, around the time the 12 round limit was done any with. After that it went up to nearly 230 by the 90s and more. It will never go down much again in reality; maybe 220 at the lowest, but nothing close to 200 ever again.
My dinner with Conteh is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2013, 06:11 AM   #7
AlFrancis
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Granada, Spain.
Posts: 4,172
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Did the change from 15 rounds to 12 rounds usher in the era of super-heavyweights

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBooze View Post
No, better nutrition heralded the era of bigger Heavyweights.
In the case of heavyweights I wonder if it was a case of worse nutrition than better. Some of the more recent ones look as if they've been brought up on a diet of fast food.
AlFrancis is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2013, 06:20 AM   #8
jaymon112
MARVELOUS
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,105
vCash: 561
Default Re: Did the change from 15 rounds to 12 rounds usher in the era of super-heavyweights

Quote:
Originally Posted by fists of fury View Post
No, because the super-heavyweight is largely a myth in my opinion. Only four fighters in the past 20 years have had great size and skills to match. (Bowe, Lewis, and the K brothers.)

They're not exactly falling out of trees.

If your definition of a super heavyweight is just a big hulking lug, then that's something else entirely.
Look at Tua v Ustinov
jaymon112 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2013, 06:28 AM   #9
Unforgiven
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 12,122
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Did the change from 15 rounds to 12 rounds usher in the era of super-heavyweights

HGH maybe.
Unforgiven is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2013, 07:10 AM   #10
StGeorge
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 816
vCash: 500
Default Re: Did the change from 15 rounds to 12 rounds usher in the era of super-heavyweights

Quote:
Originally Posted by choklab View Post
Largely, the already big, slow guy wanted to get bigger to emphasize his advantage and the faster, athletic guy simply became slower once he refused to give away too much weight against the bigger man.
StGeorge is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2013, 10:54 AM   #11
choklab
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: bad to the bone and sexy
Posts: 4,982
vCash: 500
Default Re: Did the change from 15 rounds to 12 rounds usher in the era of super-heavyweights

Quote:
Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh View Post
No, the average weight of heavyweight fights has been going up since the 1950s anyway...when the weight was something around 190lbs, a decade later it was approx 205, then in 1970s it was up to 215, then 220 by the 1980s, around the time the 12 round limit was done any with. After that it went up to nearly 230 by the 90s and more. It will never go down much again in reality; maybe 220 at the lowest, but nothing close to 200 ever again.
Funny thing is Look at how many KOs were recorded during title fights before the 220 era compared to the 220 plus era?

Joe Louis was knocking everyone out with 6oz gloves at 199lb. All shapes and sizes.

Gloves went up to 8oz in all title fights after the Marciano v Cokell fight then during the 1980s gloves went up to 10oz with attached thumbs. it just became harder and harder to stop fighters.

With almost 4oz extra padding than Joe Louis had it was harder to stop a fighter. Would Joe Louis have the same edge against giants with a 10oz glove? With smaller gloves there was a lot less room for error so it favoured the man with the sharpest, faster hands. Not so with bigger gloves.

Faster fighters landing more punches were less likely to end a fight early. Speed was only the advantage early in a fight or until both men tired to the extent that speed was often neutralised. A smaller man was left wrestling with a heavier man. The naturally more athletic fighters who previously traded on sharpness of punch just were not as effective or as accurate with bigger gloves. So they built themselves up to counter this, but once this started the taller men with the longer arms took over.
choklab is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2013, 04:04 PM   #12
fists of fury
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: March for Revenge
Posts: 5,725
vCash: 1887
Default Re: Did the change from 15 rounds to 12 rounds usher in the era of super-heavyweights

Quote:
Originally Posted by choklab View Post

Gloves went up to 8oz in all title fights after the Marciano v Cokell fight then during the 1980s gloves went up to 10oz with attached thumbs. it just became harder and harder to stop fighters.

With almost 4oz extra padding than Joe Louis had it was harder to stop a fighter. Would Joe Louis have the same edge against giants with a 10oz glove? .
I've had to dispel this myth once today already.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
fists of fury is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2013, 04:30 PM   #13
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 20,603
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Did the change from 15 rounds to 12 rounds usher in the era of super-heavyweights

I think it was one factor in a number.

A lot of the superheavies would have come in lighter, had they had to go 15 rounds.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2013, 04:35 PM   #14
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 20,603
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Did the change from 15 rounds to 12 rounds usher in the era of super-heavyweights

Quote:
Originally Posted by fists of fury View Post
I've had to dispel this myth once today already.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
So essentially, all gloves from all areas are pretty much equal!

That is the one outcome I would never have anticipated in a million years!

Not in any hurry to take a bare-knuckle punch from John L now!
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2013, 04:38 PM   #15
AnthonyJ74
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,506
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Did the change from 15 rounds to 12 rounds usher in the era of super-heavyweights

Quote:
Originally Posted by fists of fury View Post
No, because the super-heavyweight is largely a myth in my opinion. Only four fighters in the past 20 years have had great size and skills to match. (Bowe, Lewis, and the K brothers.)

They're not exactly falling out of trees.

If your definition of a super heavyweight is just a big hulking lug, then that's something else entirely.
I agree. There were big guys around 100 years ago. Many of Joe Louis' sparring partners were guys 6'4" 240+ pounds; they just weren't good enough to compete at the elite level. This whole idea that guys 6'4" 240+ pounds didn't come into existence until 1990 or so is absurd. Has the average sizes of people increased all that significantly over the last 100 years or so? If you take away performance-enhancing drugs, weightlifting, and steroids (and of course, the obesity epidemic), I think you'll find people are roughly the same size as they were in 1913, although I do know average heights for most parts of the population have increased somewhat, but not that much and not for all segments.
AnthonyJ74 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013