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Old 03-02-2008, 11:01 PM   #46
RoccoMarciano
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Default Re: H2H,who beats a prime Tyson

A prime Holmes gets the job done.

Do any of you people think it would be wise for any HW boxer to get into Marciano's face? A Rock tells Iron to bring it on... I never knew how easily Iron would melt when faced by a Rock that fights back.....
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Old 03-03-2008, 12:11 AM   #47
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Default Re: H2H,who beats a prime Tyson

Tyson would give Ali loads of trouble. I don't see why so many fighters think Ali would beat him easily. I would consider this fight a toss-up.
I would favor Holmes, Holyfield, Foreman, Liston, and maybe Jack Johnson against Tyson.
Guys like Lewis and Bowe had chances, but I wouldn't favor them.
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Old 03-03-2008, 12:23 AM   #48
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Default Re: H2H,who beats a prime Tyson

It's very hard for me to favor anybody over a peak Mike Tyson, and that includes Ali, Holmes, Liston, Lewis, and Foreman.
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Old 03-03-2008, 12:41 AM   #49
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Default Re: H2H,who beats a prime Tyson

Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklyn1550
It's very hard for me to favor anybody over a peak Mike Tyson, and that includes Ali, Holmes, Liston, Lewis, and Foreman.
Why? Did the media really convince you he was that good? Assuming you were even around for a live Tyson fight.
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Old 03-03-2008, 12:43 AM   #50
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Default Re: H2H,who beats a prime Tyson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Sledge
Tyson would give Ali loads of trouble. I don't see why so many fighters think Ali would beat him easily. I would consider this fight a toss-up.
I would favor Holmes, Holyfield, Foreman, Liston, and maybe Jack Johnson against Tyson.
Guys like Lewis and Bowe had chances, but I wouldn't favor them.
Ali fought back. Tyson lacked the power to KO Ali. After a couple round fit from Tyson, Ali owns him.

Don't give me any Holmes shit either.. Holmes was off for a couple years and looked nothing like he would have in a prime vs prime against Tyson.
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Old 03-03-2008, 04:33 AM   #51
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Default Re: H2H,who beats a prime Tyson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
You're fast becoming the joke on this forum that you were on the last one.

What does Frazier losing to Foreman have to do with Tyson losing to him? Tyson is MUCH better defensively, much quicker, a better outboxer, and more powerful. He'd undoubtedly be landing a lot more than a guy like Lyle(who had Foreman hurt badly) and he wouldn't be getting hit nearly as much as Frazier. Foreman's lack of skill and defense would be his downfall. Tyson has the speed to pop in and out and the accuracy over Frazier, along with the defense.
This is coming from a poster that says Tyson would beat Foreman and Roy would knock Hearns out easily.

Frazier is a lot tougher than Tyson. Frazier could actually fight for the full 15 without losing confidence. If you are still there after Tyson landed his best stuff on you, then you will most likely take over the fight. He came out blazing for the first 3 rounds, but he always slowed down in the middle rounds. He grew weaker as the rounds went on...............

Prime Foreman had a great chin a good stamina. He could take what Tyson has to dish out. Prime Tyson couldn't ''blast out'' Mitch Green, Toney Tucker, James Smith and James Tillis. Neither were as strong or as tough as Foreman. That also proves my point that Tyson gets weaker in the late rounds.

Foreman's jab would find the mark easily as he had the far longer reach and he fought tall so Tyson would have problems hitting him flush. When Tyson's head movement starts to slow, i see Foreman landing his left hook and uppercuts. Tyson was vulnerable to uppercuts. Tony Tucker and James Smith were able to hit Tyson with the uppercut every time they would throw it. James Smith hit Tyson with an uppercut in the last round of thier fight and knocked him a few feet backward. Tyson would be directly in front of Foreman so George would definatley land his and once he finds his target, he would not let up.

There is simply no way you can come at Prime Foreman and expect to win punch for punch. The style that Tyson has is tailyor made for Foreman. Its just hiliarious the way you Tyson huggers just say that he would beat anyone. You also making him an even match with Ali is hiliarious. Liston was a bigger threat to Ali than Tyson would be. Ali's strength is underrated because he was easily able to tie Liston as when he tried to get on the inside, which nullified everything. Tyson would recieve the same thing that Liston had, but worse.

:note: The Foreman/Lyle fight happen when Foreman was not mentally prepared and still damaged from the Ali fight. Foreman showed a better chin when he fought Frazier, Holyifeld,Morrison and Moore. Those fights happen when he was mentally at his best. Jimmy Young nor Ron Lyle would stand a chance against the beast that beat Frazier the first time.
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Old 03-03-2008, 04:40 AM   #52
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Default Re: H2H,who beats a prime Tyson

I'd favour:

Ali
Liston
Louis
Holmes
Holyfield (post '90)

... to beat Tyson.


close fight:

Johnson
Lewis

Tyson beats:

Foreman
Marciano
Jeffries
Dempsey
Bowe
Frazier
Patterson
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Old 03-03-2008, 06:57 AM   #53
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Default Re: H2H,who beats a prime Tyson

Tyson's blend of explosiveness, power, speed and sheer animal ferocity make him a nasty proposition for anyone in history.

Physically, few (if any) heavyweights can outmatch him, given his frankly astounding physical attributes.
The guys I would look toward then, are the guys with the right intangibles and tangibles to beat him.

Guys with a rock-solid chin, indomitable spirit and a good measure of fearlessness. To beat Tyson, you need to weather a firestorm, take him into deep water, and drown him.

My automatic picks in this regard are Ali and Bowe 2-era Holyfield. Are they automatic winners? No, not at all. But they have the right combination of physical and mental attributes to give them the edge. They could conceivably weather the Tyson assault and keep coming back for more, getting the better of things later on.

Holmes has a chance too, but Holmes tended t be a bit of a cowboy in there sometimes, and getting macho with Tyson probably wouldn't be a very good idea. He does have the right ingredients to ask some serious questions of Tyson. I just wonder if he'd be strong enough to keep Tyson off him though...

Lewis is another potential candidate. He's a huge man with a massive right hand, has a good boxing brain and is better all-round than anyone 80's Tyson had ever faced. If his whiskers were made of sterner stuff, I'd pick him above all others, but I dunno...his chin wasn't bad, but Tyson could paralyse you with one shot. It's hard to say.

James J. Jeffries under his rule set maybe could have done something. By God though, he'd look like hell afterward.

I tell you what, a peak Riddick Bowe would be an interesting fight for Tyson.
Shoddy defense yes, but he was well-schooled in pretty much every other area, and was as adept on the inside (something Tyson wasn't) as he was at range. It's not out of the question to think he could beat Tyson.

Joe Louis...possibly, but I have nightmares thinking of 3-punch Tyson combo landing on him. Could his chin handle Tyson's power?

The rest? Either too small, too slow or just not good enough.
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Old 03-03-2008, 07:26 AM   #54
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Default Re: H2H,who beats a prime Tyson

ali holmes lewis holyfield liston and foreman all beat prime tyson IMO
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Old 03-03-2008, 11:38 AM   #55
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Default Re: H2H,who beats a prime Tyson

Quote:
Originally Posted by slicksouthpaw16
This is coming from a poster that says Tyson would beat Foreman and Roy would knock Hearns out easily.

Frazier is a lot tougher than Tyson. Frazier could actually fight for the full 15 without losing confidence. If you are still there after Tyson landed his best stuff on you, then you will most likely take over the fight. He came out blazing for the first 3 rounds, but he always slowed down in the middle rounds. He grew weaker as the rounds went on...............

Prime Foreman had a great chin a good stamina. He could take what Tyson has to dish out. Prime Tyson couldn't ''blast out'' Mitch Green, Toney Tucker, James Smith and James Tillis. Neither were as strong or as tough as Foreman. That also proves my point that Tyson gets weaker in the late rounds.

Foreman's jab would find the mark easily as he had the far longer reach and he fought tall so Tyson would have problems hitting him flush. When Tyson's head movement starts to slow, i see Foreman landing his left hook and uppercuts. Tyson was vulnerable to uppercuts. Tony Tucker and James Smith were able to hit Tyson with the uppercut every time they would throw it. James Smith hit Tyson with an uppercut in the last round of thier fight and knocked him a few feet backward. Tyson would be directly in front of Foreman so George would definatley land his and once he finds his target, he would not let up.

There is simply no way you can come at Prime Foreman and expect to win punch for punch. The style that Tyson has is tailyor made for Foreman. Its just hiliarious the way you Tyson huggers just say that he would beat anyone. You also making him an even match with Ali is hiliarious. Liston was a bigger threat to Ali than Tyson would be. Ali's strength is underrated because he was easily able to tie Liston as when he tried to get on the inside, which nullified everything. Tyson would recieve the same thing that Liston had, but worse.

:note: The Foreman/Lyle fight happen when Foreman was not mentally prepared and still damaged from the Ali fight. Foreman showed a better chin when he fought Frazier, Holyifeld,Morrison and Moore. Those fights happen when he was mentally at his best. Jimmy Young nor Ron Lyle would stand a chance against the beast that beat Frazier the first time.
Don't sweat the huggers. If you don't happen to think Tyson destroys greats like he destroyed decent contenders, you are considered a hater! He was a very good boxer, but outside of Tua (and I wouldn't favor Johnson eiteher) I don't find fault w/ your picks! Keep up the good work! Peace
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Old 03-03-2008, 01:24 PM   #56
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Default Re: H2H,who beats a prime Tyson

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyPhan69
Don't sweat the huggers. If you don't happen to think Tyson destroys greats like he destroyed decent contenders, you are considered a hater! He was a very good boxer, but outside of Tua (and I wouldn't favor Johnson eiteher) I don't find fault w/ your picks! Keep up the good work! Peace
Agreed, but i would definatley give Tua on his best day to upset a prime Tyson. I think that he just has too much heart for Mike. Tyson relied on his power and if he couldn't get you out early, then he would lose confidence. Tua punches as hard as Tyson and he would definatley be there landing back and i just can't see Tyson holding up.

Prime Tyson was a very good boxer and very exciting to watch and the way he was matched carefully was good, but i think that people overrate him on these forums. The man had all of the skill and talent in the world and even had a great chin, but his crazyness and lack of concentration was his downfall. On top of him not having too much heart.

I would favor this version of Tua over Tyson.

BORKED



Tua and Ibeabuchi set records for throwing the most punches ever in a heavyweight fight. This was back when Tua was in his prime and was faster. Tyson had a great chin but you can only take so much and if Tua could take what Ike had to dish out, then he would could take peak Tyson. Ike was better technically sound and just an all around better fighter than Tyson was in my opinion. He puts in mind of a bigger version of Evander Holyfield. I just wish that he didn't go to jail before he had a title. The man was impressive because he was only 16-0 fights and he beat Tua that was 27-0. He also knocked out Byrd, who later became a 2 time world champion.
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Old 03-03-2008, 03:58 PM   #57
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Default Re: H2H,who beats a prime Tyson

I would favour:
Liston
Holmes
Ali

50/50
Frazier
Lewis
Holyfield

I feel he would beat everybody else.
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Old 03-03-2008, 04:01 PM   #58
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Default Re: H2H,who beats a prime Tyson

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoccoMarciano
Ali fought back. Tyson lacked the power to KO Ali. After a couple round fit from Tyson, Ali owns him.
Agree. By about round 5 it's a man against a boy.
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Old 03-03-2008, 04:04 PM   #59
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Default Re: H2H,who beats a prime Tyson

Quote:
Originally Posted by slicksouthpaw16[QUOTE
]This is coming from a poster that says Tyson would beat Foreman and Roy would knock Hearns out easily.
I've given analysis as to why Tyson beats Foreman. You think Foreman beats Tyson automatically because he beat Frazier, which shows you don't know dick about analyzing fighters if you can't see the immense differences in the two. We've done NUMEROUS polls on here on Hearns vs Jones, and every time Jones has won by wide margins. You accuse me of not understanding style matchups because I choose Jones, when in fact, someone like Hearns, with his height and reach, are only extremely effective against smaller fighters, where he has those advantages. Against a naturally bigger, stronger, more powerful, and more athletic fighter(especially one as evasive as Jones) he wouldn't have these advantages. Against someone capable of avoiding most of his best punches, and landing punches at the odd angles Jones does, you honestly don't see Hearns getting caught big? Certainly would.

Quote:
Frazier is a lot tougher than Tyson. Frazier could actually fight for the full 15 without losing confidence. If you are still there after Tyson landed his best stuff on you, then you will most likely take over the fight. He came out blazing for the first 3 rounds, but he always slowed down in the middle rounds. He grew weaker as the rounds went on...............
When did he do this in his prime? WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A PRIME TYSON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you comprehend that yet? None of that was ever an issue at any point until his domestic problems starting acting up and he started getting handled by people who didn't give two shits about him. Frazier certainly didn't have a better chin, nor was he nearly as skilled or versatile. His style played right into Foreman's hands. Tyson's doesn't.

Quote:
Prime Foreman had a great chin a good stamina. He could take what Tyson has to dish out. Prime Tyson couldn't ''blast out'' Mitch Green, Toney Tucker, James Smith and James Tillis. Neither were as strong or as tough as Foreman. That also proves my point that Tyson gets weaker in the late rounds.
Foreman's chin was better in his second career. He got rocked by guys like Lyle and lesser fighters in his first one. No way in hell he takes combos from Tyson without going down. He couldn't blast out Green, Tucker, or Smith because they were holders. Tucker was the only one who tried to fight back. Either way, Mike won almost every round. AGainst someone looking to trade with Tyson and not move or hold, you honestly think they survive? Don't be foolish. With Foreman, you have a guy with power, but no defense or real skill, against a guy with great defense and skill, to go with the power.

And what proves that Tyson got weaker later in rounds? Nothing at all? Thought so.

Quote:
Foreman's jab would find the mark easily as he had the far longer reach and he fought tall so Tyson would have problems hitting him flush.
Foreman's slow, plodding jab lands constantly but guys with quick, snapping jabs like Biggs, Tucker, Thomas, etc couldn't land shit? The jab was the least effective punch on a prime Tyson, it wasn't until after Rooney left that his style started to change and he lost the head movement, defense, and general style he used to imply. He became a brawler. That Tyson has a chance of getting beaten by Foreman. Tyson would have no problems hitting a 6'2 guy flush if he had no problems hitting a 6'5 mover(Biggs, and others) flush. Especially considering one has no defense(Foreman).

Quote:
When Tyson's head movement starts to slow, i see Foreman landing his left hook and uppercuts. Tyson was vulnerable to uppercuts. Tony Tucker and James Smith were able to hit Tyson with the uppercut every time they would throw it. James Smith hit Tyson with an uppercut in the last round of thier fight and knocked him a few feet backward. Tyson would be directly in front of Foreman so George would definatley land his and once he finds his target, he would not let up.
When his head movement starts to slow? What, in the later rounds? This fight ain't lasting until the late rounds, and Foreman's certainly not going to be landing enough or in good enough position to land enough to make Tyson slow. Tyson got caught with a few uppercuts in the fights with Tucker yes, but those were educated uppercuts, not what Foreman threw after hurting an opponent and they were cowering over the ropes. That's not going to land on someone in the middle of the ring, especially one who can move.

Also, Tyson, unlike Foreman, was actually capable of using movement, using a quick jab, and using evasive defensive tactics to slip out of harm's way. You act like I'm saying Tyson would just win a straight up brawl(which also isn't out of question, seeing how well Lyle did). I'm saying Tyson's movement and defense, combined with his accuracy and combination punching, would do a lot worse for Foreman than Foreman's sloppy wide punches with no defense would do to Tyson.

Quote:
There is simply no way you can come at Prime Foreman and expect to win punch for punch.
See above.

Quote:
The style that Tyson has is tailyor made for Foreman.
The style that Frazier had was tailor made for Foreman, because he had no movement or defense, and less of an arsenal than Tyson. And in the rematch, he was actually outboxing Foreman before once again getting caught in the 5th and taken out.

Quote:
Its just hiliarious the way you Tyson huggers just say that he would beat anyone. You also making him an even match with Ali is hiliarious. Liston was a bigger threat to Ali than Tyson would be. Ali's strength is underrated because he was easily able to tie Liston as when he tried to get on the inside, which nullified everything. Tyson would recieve the same thing that Liston had, but worse.
I'm pretty sure they wouldn't force Tyson to throw the fight.

Either way, I'll give you analysis as to why he could beat Ali as well, anyone that refuses to see is being ignorant. It could go either way.

Quote:
:note: The Foreman/Lyle fight happen when Foreman was not mentally prepared and still damaged from the Ali fight. Foreman showed a better chin when he fought Frazier, Holyifeld,Morrison and Moore. Those fights happen when he was mentally at his best. Jimmy Young nor Ron Lyle would stand a chance against the beast that beat Frazier the first time.
So you make excuses for Foreman but when we do the same for Tyson you laugh?
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Old 03-03-2008, 04:09 PM   #60
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Default Re: H2H,who beats a prime Tyson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorlax
No one. Anyone who has seen the glory of the 1986 Mega-Tyson knows this.
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