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Old 03-03-2008, 04:28 PM   #16
Calroid
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Default Re: Gene Tunney v Joe Frazier

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Originally Posted by mcvey
This is a real toughie,Frazier was relentless,,fast at getting in ,with quick hands,stamina ,prepared to take punches to get that hook home,there may be question s about his chin at elite level ,but Tunney wouldnt answer them.Tunney had great legs ,used the ring as well as any heavyweight,a smart strategist ,with a cold calculating ring brain ,he had a swift and accurate jab ,and an underated quick short right,top chin and was mentally tough .Stylistically I think this favours Frazier,he was pretty quick at getting into range and his handspeed was good,Tunney had respectable power ,but not earthshattering so ,though he would take punishment Frazier would not be in danger of being kod,imo,I see Tunney loping backwards,Frazier in pursuit,Tunney firing in that quick left ,and crossing his right when he saw the opening,not stopping to clinch,Frazier would be burrowing in,firing that hook going for the body,after 8rds Tunneys legs would start to slow from the body attack,he would be in front ,but winding down a little,Frazier with probably some facial damage would be as fast as ever,as Tunney,s legs came down a gear Frazier would land more solidly and lay some real hurt on the Marine Tunney had balls and skills he would go the route but lose a dec imo.
Spot on assessment.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Frazier score a late round KO though.
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Old 03-03-2008, 06:39 PM   #17
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Default Re: Gene Tunney v Joe Frazier

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Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
I think Tunney is a master boxer who was ahead of his time and had lightning speed, but how is he going to beat Frazier when he couldn't consistently beat a middleweight Frazier in Greb?

Head to head i think very highly of Smoking Joe. I don't think any heavyweight that can't knock him out would ever beat him. He ate boxers up, took their best shot, pinned them on the ropes, didn't allowed them to breath... he was a true boxer's(mover's) nightmare. Even if Tunney goes the distance (his durability is rather untested at heavyweight), i think he'll be battered and lose a decision. Watch Frazier vs Foster or Frazier vs Ali. You can't hide from Frazier and you won't scare him from coming in either, even if your name is Foreman.
Yes, good.
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Old 03-03-2008, 08:21 PM   #18
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Default Re: Gene Tunney v Joe Frazier

I can't see Tunney being able to effectively deal with Frazier's pressure the entire fight. His head movement and footwork would have helped him to close the distance and nothing Tunney throws could prevent Joe from relentlessly pursuing him. I see a mid round stoppage for Frazier.
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Old 03-03-2008, 08:51 PM   #19
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Default Re: Gene Tunney v Joe Frazier

Greb tells us alot. Tunney struggled mightily against the smaller swarmer, and although Greb respected Tunney and knew his formidability first hand, Greb performed very well against Tunney with a strategy that was all nonstop agression from every angle.

Frazier was elusive, but he could be timed. He hit far harder than Greb, and as a pressure fighter, he was comparable when you factor everything in. Frazier was also deceptively strong and durable.

Frazier would win, and hurt Tunney along the way... but look for Tunney to solve the puzzle in the rematch.

First bout, money on Joe.
Rematch, money on Gene.
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Old 03-03-2008, 09:28 PM   #20
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Default Re: Gene Tunney v Joe Frazier

I don't like this match-up for Tunney at all.
I respect Tunney and his accomplishments, for his era...But I honestly think a prime Frazier would be too much for Gene...In his prime, Frazier was a fast, nasty, swarming fighter.
"I want to hurt him, if I knock him down, I'll stand back, give him a chance to breathe, it's his heart I want.."
Frazier by KO in six
You guys are forgeting how determined and strong Frazier was...IMO this isn't close
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Old 03-03-2008, 10:19 PM   #21
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Default Re: Gene Tunney v Joe Frazier

A very winnable yet frustrating task for Frazier. Tunney was a trickster and extremely fast for a heavyweight, though he really wasn't a heavyweight in the truest sense. Lookin at how Frazier handled boxers like Ali and Ellis, I'd say he'd have a good chance. He was a pure left hooker which incidently was one of Dempsey's best punches. He had tremendous handspeed and the tendency to reak as much havock as humanly possible when on the inside. Tunney would give him hell though, and take a number of rounds on the scorecards. Few fighters ever truly figured him out, and needless to say, he was never KO'd in over 80 something fights.

I might be inclined to take Frazier by a hairline decision, but wouldn't be surprised to see things go the other way, depending on who's judging.
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Old 03-04-2008, 04:44 AM   #22
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Default Re: Gene Tunney v Joe Frazier

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Originally Posted by mr. magoo
A very winnable yet frustrating task for Frazier. Tunney was a trickster and extremely fast for a heavyweight, though he really wasn't a heavyweight in the truest sense. Lookin at how Frazier handled boxers like Ali and Ellis, I'd say he'd have a good chance. He was a pure left hooker which incidently was one of Dempsey's best punches. He had tremendous handspeed and the tendency to reak as much havock as humanly possible when on the inside. Tunney would give him hell though, and take a number of rounds on the scorecards. Few fighters ever truly figured him out, and needless to say, he was never KO'd in over 80 something fights.

I might be inclined to take Frazier by a hairline decision, but wouldn't be surprised to see things go the other way, depending on who's judging.

Fantastic summary. I'm 50/50 on this one, though (might even lean towards Tunney).
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Old 03-04-2008, 04:53 AM   #23
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Default Re: Gene Tunney v Joe Frazier

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Originally Posted by Sardu
Dempsey from 1923 and before would also have beaten Tunney.
I find it hard to be convinced by this statement. Personally I think Tunney is just about too hot for Dempsey to handle at virtually any stage. Fact is that past peak or otherwise Dempsey stepped into the ring twice against a slick, speedy, smart fighter who had tonnes of heart and underestimated power. He lost decisively both times.
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Old 03-04-2008, 05:00 AM   #24
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Default Re: Gene Tunney v Joe Frazier

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Originally Posted by Stonehands89
Greb tells us alot. Tunney struggled mightily against the smaller swarmer, and although Greb respected Tunney and knew his formidability first hand, Greb performed very well against Tunney with a strategy that was all nonstop agression from every angle.

Frazier was elusive, but he could be timed. He hit far harder than Greb, and as a pressure fighter, he was comparable when you factor everything in. Frazier was also deceptively strong and durable.

Frazier would win, and hurt Tunney along the way... but look for Tunney to solve the puzzle in the rematch.

First bout, money on Joe.
Rematch, money on Gene.
It must be remembered that Tunney weighed 174 1/2.[inside the LH limit ] when he lost to Greb in 1922,in 23 he scaled 174 and took a dec,by 24Tunney was up to175,while Greb came in at 166,that was a draw,by25 Tunney was bigger and had filled out he was181,and gave Greb a beating,for Dempsey Tunney weighed 189 1/2,so between the first Greb fight and the title fight with Dempsey ,Tunney packed on 15 lbs of muscle,in the Greb fights Tunney was still developing as a fighter,and as a man.
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Old 03-04-2008, 05:01 AM   #25
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Default Re: Gene Tunney v Joe Frazier

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Originally Posted by Holmes' Jab
I find it hard to be convinced by this statement. Personally I think Tunney is just about too hot for Dempsey to handle at virtually any stage. Fact is that past peak or otherwise Dempsey stepped into the ring twice against a slick, speedy, smart fighter who had tonnes of heart and underestimated power. He lost decisively both times.
Do you not think that 3 years of inactivity and the high life had something to do with Dempseys performance?
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Old 03-04-2008, 05:25 AM   #26
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Default Re: Gene Tunney v Joe Frazier

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
I think Tunney is a master boxer who was ahead of his time and had lightning speed, but how is he going to beat Frazier when he couldn't consistently beat a middleweight Frazier in Greb?
I dont have a film reel of Greb in my atic but I am prety sure he was not that much like Frazier. Joe Calzaghe might be a better comparison.
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Old 03-04-2008, 05:34 AM   #27
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Default Re: Gene Tunney v Joe Frazier

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Originally Posted by mcvey
Do you not think that 3 years of inactivity and the high life had something to do with Dempseys performance?
Yes, it did. However the wide margin of both Tunneys victories says to me that there's no way at all people should rule out him beating the Dempsey of a few years prior. It would be closer for sure but I think Tunneys knack of stealing rounds down the stretch will stand him in good stead as well as his goods chin and undoubted heart (something like 6-4 in a ten rounder).
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Old 03-04-2008, 05:34 AM   #28
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Default Re: Gene Tunney v Joe Frazier

Tunney was one of ..if not THE headiest fighter ever...smart...strong....the thinking man's fighter.....he lost to Greb..and then avenged his only loss!!
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Old 03-04-2008, 06:07 AM   #29
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Default Re: Gene Tunney v Joe Frazier

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Originally Posted by dpw417
"I want to hurt him, if I knock him down, I'll stand back, give him a chance to breathe, it's his heart I want.."
A memorable line.
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Old 03-04-2008, 06:19 AM   #30
ChrisPontius
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Default Re: Gene Tunney v Joe Frazier

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Originally Posted by mcvey
It must be remembered that Tunney weighed 174 1/2.[inside the LH limit ] when he lost to Greb in 1922,in 23 he scaled 174 and took a dec,by 24Tunney was up to175,while Greb came in at 166,that was a draw,by25 Tunney was bigger and had filled out he was181,and gave Greb a beating,for Dempsey Tunney weighed 189 1/2,so between the first Greb fight and the title fight with Dempsey ,Tunney packed on 15 lbs of muscle,in the Greb fights Tunney was still developing as a fighter,and as a man.
True, but on the flipside, Greb was badly declining during their last fights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor
I dont have a film reel of Greb in my atic but I am prety sure he was not that much like Frazier. Joe Calzaghe might be a better comparison.
You may just be right. Calzaghe like Greb has an iron chin, a very high punch output and very good defense.


But let's put it this way: both Greb and Frazier relied on relentless pressure to wear their opponents down and not allow them to get into a rythem. So in that sense, i think Tunney does more than just struggle if Greb gains 40 pounds of natural weight.
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