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Old 03-09-2014, 01:40 AM   #1
Thracian
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Default Frank Shamrock talks about tragedy of Former Fighters

Just wrote this for The Bleacher Report: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Good discussion of what happens when a fighters career ends:

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Two weeks ago, former UFC fighter [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] let rip with a vicious tweet that sent shock waves throughout the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] community:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] Twitter
screenshot of Leben tweet

The tweet has since been deleted—replaced with the story that Leben acted out because he’d lost his dog—but interest in the original message’s meaning has only snowballed. Ex-UFC fighter and fellow Ultimate Fighter alumni [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] with his own criticism of the UFC’s practices. Some fans blame Chris Leben for engineering his situation by making his own mistakes—including drug addiction and failure to pay income tax—while others question the promoter’s responsibility to former fighters.

Talking to former UFC champion Frank Shamrock uncovers stark realities about the life of a retired MMA fighter.

“I don’t think some guys realize that at some point, physically, they’ll be done, and at some point, their drawing power will be done,” says Shamrock. “In fact, they will literally stop overnight. There’s no backup, no union, no protection, no pension—there’s nothing to help them move to the next career.”
Read more here: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
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Old 03-09-2014, 10:13 AM   #2
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Default Re: Frank Shamrock talks about tragedy of Former Fighters

UFC is no different then any other sport. Look at all of the other pro athletes and how broke they are a couple years after retiring. They never learn to manage their money and blow it all livin' large.

Leben has always been a train wreck and should be thankful that the UFC gave him a chance to try and do something better with his life and he still threw those chances away with inconsistant performances and drug suspensions. He lost right off the bat in TUF and was only brought back because he was such an asshole he upped the ratings. The fact that he earned just under 1 million dollars in the UFC is more proof that he got paid for what he did.

It's not like Leben was a title holder or champion and the poster boy for Zuffa/UFC and then they hung him out to dry. I would say that based on his talent they have went over and above.

Last edited by Punisher73; 03-09-2014 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 03-09-2014, 05:11 PM   #3
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Default Re: Frank Shamrock talks about tragedy of Former Fighters

All that being said, isn't Leben negative PR for Zuffa? Shouldn't there be someone out there trying to help fighters manage their finances and retirement better DURING their career rather than leaving them to pick up the broken pieces AFTER their time has past?

How many greats have we seen fall down after retirement? Hatton was suicidal. Ex-fighters need support.
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Old 03-10-2014, 02:27 AM   #4
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Default Re: Frank Shamrock talks about tragedy of Former Fighters

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Originally Posted by Thracian View Post
All that being said, isn't Leben negative PR for Zuffa? Shouldn't there be someone out there trying to help fighters manage their finances and retirement better DURING their career rather than leaving them to pick up the broken pieces AFTER their time has past?

How many greats have we seen fall down after retirement? Hatton was suicidal. Ex-fighters need support.
Thats what their own managers should be doing NOT the UFC. Not doubt the ufc has fighter summits etc etc which inform fighters, to a degree, regarding things like paying taxes, seeing accountants, saving for their future etc etc but if dumb **** ups like Chris Leben don't listen/don't care at the time then that not the UFC's problem. Chris Leben is a loser and needs to take responsibility for himself.
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Old 03-10-2014, 04:21 AM   #5
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Default Re: Frank Shamrock talks about tragedy of Former Fighters

Management in MMA is very poor overall, see here for stories about giving away things for nothing: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Few reasons for more powerful managers to get involved because of the issues of the sport.
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Old 03-10-2014, 08:54 PM   #6
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Default Re: Frank Shamrock talks about tragedy of Former Fighters

The thing about fighters is that they should pay income tax straight up on their earnings for each fight. The UFC should withhold a certain amount for income tax just like our employers do in our day to day jobs...... The UFC is like their employer anyway.
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Old 03-11-2014, 09:18 PM   #7
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Default Re: Frank Shamrock talks about tragedy of Former Fighters

Hire an accountant early in your career. Pay all taxes under watchful eye of said accountant. Buy and pay off a nice home as soon as possible. Build up a bank account and invest in high dividend stocks and mutual funds. You pay only 50 percent on dividend
income compared to interest income. Don't do drugs or alcohol during your pro career and you will end a 10 year career at age 32 with a home and a large portfolio. Then go out and get a job like everyone else. Most athletes are irresponsible crybabies who lucked out genetically and threw it all away due to arrogance and ignorance.
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Old 03-12-2014, 10:44 AM   #8
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Default Re: Frank Shamrock talks about tragedy of Former Fighters

Yeah I tend to agree that most athletes bring these things on themselves. If you wanna indulge in life in the fast lane when you have fame and (a small) fortune don't cry foul when there's no money left when your career ends. Any fringe contender who thinks he will be on the UFC payroll til he's at least 40 is delusional. I'm not even sure I'd call it arrogance, it's just irresponsibility.
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Old 03-13-2014, 03:56 PM   #9
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Default Re: Frank Shamrock talks about tragedy of Former Fighters

How about Fatherless Bastard vs Let Me Bang Bro?

Winner fights Junie Browning.
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Old 03-16-2014, 03:34 PM   #10
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Default Re: Frank Shamrock talks about tragedy of Former Fighters

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Originally Posted by skier47 View Post
Hire an accountant early in your career. Pay all taxes under watchful eye of said accountant. Buy and pay off a nice home as soon as possible. Build up a bank account and invest in high dividend stocks and mutual funds. You pay only 50 percent on dividend
income compared to interest income. Don't do drugs or alcohol during your pro career and you will end a 10 year career at age 32 with a home and a large portfolio. Then go out and get a job like everyone else. Most athletes are irresponsible crybabies who lucked out genetically and threw it all away due to arrogance and ignorance.

Add to that, fighters should buy annuities. They are creditor proof and will provide a pension later on down the road.

As someone who provides both accounting and financial planning services for a living, this certainly isn't rocket science. Makes we wonder how qualified these so called managers are.
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Old 03-18-2014, 12:30 AM   #11
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Default Re: Frank Shamrock talks about tragedy of Former Fighters

Yeah, makes sense but you gotta wonder. The chemistry that makes for great exciting fighters, is probably the same blueprint for reckless egotistical spenders, not exactly the conservative responsible kind. I'm sure there are many exceptions, but look at past successful boxers. How many of them fit the fast-talking, egotistical, compulsive personality type?
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Old 03-27-2014, 11:44 AM   #12
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Default Re: Frank Shamrock talks about tragedy of Former Fighters

The IRS is a U.S. government criminal enterprise who monitors the activities of every citizen and with the multiple tens of thousands of rules and regulations contained in the 70,000+ pages of tax code every American adult is in violation of some kind that is punishable by fine and/or prison.

It must be abolished and replaced by a fair tax or a flat tax... and only then can the next step in true liberty and freedom occur.
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Old 03-27-2014, 12:05 PM   #13
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Default Re: Frank Shamrock talks about tragedy of Former Fighters

I have no sympathy for broke retired fighters. Every single one of them knew EXACTLY what they signed up for at the time. Being able to fight for a living, and having the earning potential the UFC offers, is a PRIVELEDGE and nothing else. If a fighter is too ignorant and naïve to protect themselves and plan for the future, then that is their own fault and nobody else's.

The ex-fighters I do feel bad for are the boxers that have been literally robbed and screwed over by promoters/managers etc. Fighters that knew they weren't business savvy so actually reached out and trusted someone to advise them, and ended up getting smoked. That just sucks. But the UFC doesn't do that. They don't mislead these fighters. They employee grown men to fight/work for them. Wtf. If these fighters didn't like the CONTRACT they signed, they didn't have to sign it! They could've grinded out a 9-5 job like the rest of us.

If Leben chose to fight for a living, rather than drive a truck, it's his own damn fault. Not the UFC's. He should stop being a f*cking cry baby about it.
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Old 03-27-2014, 07:09 PM   #14
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Default Re: Frank Shamrock talks about tragedy of Former Fighters

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Originally Posted by BewareofDawg View Post
I have no sympathy for broke retired fighters. Every single one of them knew EXACTLY what they signed up for at the time. Being able to fight for a living, and having the earning potential the UFC offers, is a PRIVELEDGE and nothing else. If a fighter is too ignorant and naïve to protect themselves and plan for the future, then that is their own fault and nobody else's.

The ex-fighters I do feel bad for are the boxers that have been literally robbed and screwed over by promoters/managers etc. Fighters that knew they weren't business savvy so actually reached out and trusted someone to advise them, and ended up getting smoked. That just sucks. But the UFC doesn't do that. They don't mislead these fighters. They employee grown men to fight/work for them. Wtf. If these fighters didn't like the CONTRACT they signed, they didn't have to sign it! They could've grinded out a 9-5 job like the rest of us.

If Leben chose to fight for a living, rather than drive a truck, it's his own damn fault. Not the UFC's. He should stop being a f*cking cry baby about it.
Can't argue too much about that, but they certainly could include a few clauses that would protect the fighters from themselves, such at putting 10% of the gross proceeds into an annuity or something along those lines, and/or withholding income tax on their behalf and summiting it to the IRS like any other employee.
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Old 03-27-2014, 08:09 PM   #15
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Default Re: Frank Shamrock talks about tragedy of Former Fighters

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Can't argue too much about that, but they certainly could include a few clauses that would protect the fighters from themselves, such at putting 10% of the gross proceeds into an annuity or something along those lines, and/or withholding income tax on their behalf and summiting it to the IRS like any other employee.
Those are great ideas, especially withholding the income tax. It's actually quite simple to help protect these young fighters from their own recklessness. The UFC could also offer free, basic money-management courses for the young bucks coming up. Enlist a few of the older fighters as guest lecturers on the pitfalls of excessive spending. The UFC could only improve its image as a professional fight organization by implementing some or all of these reforms.
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