Which punching power better: Vitalys or Lewis'? - Page 2

barneyrub · 07-11-2007, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stinky gloves

In terms of accomplishments Lewis smashed up much beter competition than Vitaly.
He TKO/KO Ruddock, Bruno, Morrison, Golota, Tyson, Grant, Briggs, Botha, Rahman, and .....
cut Vitaly. His record is 41-2-0 (32 KO).

Vitaly TKO/KO: Hidie, Bean, Norris, Johnson, Sanders, Williams, Donald.
He don't have monsters like Tyson (who bdw was way past his best
when he fought Lewis) on the list but his recod is highly impressive 35-2-0 (34KO).

So which punching power was bigger?

lewis was way past his best when he fought tyson. 36 years old, less than 4 rds between the tyson fight and getting knocked out. Slow hand speed compared to the days of ruddock etc. in fact people talk about tysons weight compared to his prime, lewis was 22 pounds heavier against tyson at 249 than when he beat Ruddock at 227!!!! Thats the perspective you need to add on to your comment about tyson being past his best ok.

barneyrub · 07-11-2007, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bummy Davis

Lewis was the harder hitter early in the fight,because of his Ko's over Botha, Golota and Grant (not to say Vitali could not have matched the feat) although Vitali blasted out Kirk and a few early but Vitali had the late power also and Lennox never ko'd a man past the 8th round, so over 12 rounds I give Vitali the edge, over 8 Lennox

kirk johnson really quit, he wasnt sparke dout he just went down to escape, he was a disgrace in the shape and desire he came with.

Ilesey · 07-11-2007, 08:02 AM

Lewis is by far the harder puncher of the two.

paulfv · 07-11-2007, 09:48 AM

Dekkers, blistering, zulander -

Please tell me you're kidding. As I said, go back and watch the rest of the round. Lewis was holding on for the last minute of the round. There is no evidence - none - that Lewis would have lasted even 2 more rounds. If by 'walking through' Vitali's shots, you mean hanging on for dear life, yes, Lewis was walking through Vitali's shots at the end of the fight.

Lewis, before the fight, said he wanted 2-3 more fights after Vitali.

Lewis told Vitali immediately after the fight that he would rematch him.

Despite both of these, and other statements, Lewis soon after winning the 'cut lottery,' retired.

Them's the facts, gents. As is the fact that Lewis was trailing on the scorecards and felt the need to take the mike out of Merchant's hand in the post-fight interview because he didn't like the questions. Lewis knew he got lucky, and so did everyone else, including Merchant.

Lewis was a fine fighter who came along at the right time.

Vitali was a destroyer, a totally dominant force. Never trailed on the scorecards in any fight, insanely high KO %, never KO'd, never KD'd.

The most fortunate thing for Lewis and the other HW's was that Vitali kickboxed and got hurt from doing it. Other than that, Vitali would be undefeated and still reigning today, if he wasn't too bored and wanted Wlad to have a chance.

Lewis has shown he can be 1-punch KO'd, let alone just KO'd, period. Vitali can't even be knocked down, let alone out.

Lenny got lucky. Good for him. But all other evidence points out that Lewis was looking to get stopped, and stopped soon, in his fight with Vitali. His prayers were answered, as were those of his trembling fans.

Had the cut gods not been appeased, things would have ended like this:

http://www.irish-boxing.com/graphics...wis_rahman.jpg

or this:

http://www.boxingpress.de/fotos/mccall-lewis.jpg

Fortunately for an out-gunned Lenny, the cut gods saved him.

There aren't any pictures like that of Vitali. Because, at least as a pro (there's a story about him getting KO'd in amateurs by Maskaev, but I think he might have been injured, not sure), he doesn't get knocked out. Or knocked down. Lenny does, and does. And he was well on his way to doing both again.

That's what happens when the bully meets a bigger bully.

He retires.

I understand if you want to go against all the relevant historical information, the scoring of the fight, etc.

Just don't expect me to do that. I'm going to stay closer to the facts.

Fact: Lewis trailed the entire fight

Fact: Lewis had been KO'd before, and 1-punch KO'd

Fact: Lewis was hanging on at the end of the 6th, dog-tired

Fact: Lewis plopped down with no control on his stool after
the 6th round ended. He was very, very gassed and
appeared to be looking dejected that his heaviest shots
weren't doing jack to Vitali

Fact: Vitali was leading in the fight

Fact: Vitali had never been knocked down, never knocked out,
and never one-punch knocked out. He still hasn't had
any of those 3 things happen to him since

Fact: Vitali had Lewis hanging onto him at the end of the
6th round, after surviving the 'amazing' offensive
rally of LL

Fact: A very pissed-off-that-the-fight-had-been-stopped Vitali
asked LL after the fight, immediately, for a rematch.
LL said yes. There was no rematch, nor did LL ever
fight again, despite saying before the fight he wanted
several more fights after fighting Vitali

Fact: Vitali KO's people; that's what he does. And he usually
does it by systematically beating them down, as he was
doing Lewis. That's why his KO % is > 90%, higher
than any other HW in history, I believe. He is like a HW
Julian Jackson (without the weak chin) or a HW Gerald
McClellan - he destroys people. That's what all the
evidence shows from his record.

There is none - zero - factual basis from which to think LL would have either won or survived the fight. Even if you think
Lewis won the last two rounds, he still trailed. He still would have had to have won two more rounds just to tie Vitali. Forget about beating him. He was two in the hole just to try to look for a draw. Through half the fight, Vitali led by two rounds.

Now, you can make the fanboy leap and say "Oh, Lenny was coming on, he was on his way." Ok, despite that he was hanging on the last minute of the 6th round after his 'incredible' uppercut. Lenny shot his wad, and he was about to go out. Vitali was in full control at the end of the fight. Could Lenny have gotten one more 'second-wind?' Sure he could have. But there's nothing - absolutely nothing - to suggest he could have even hurt Vitali, let alone take him out. Vitali does not go down or out. That's a fact.

Ok, so that means Lenny would have had to try to get a decision win. He was down two rounds, hanging on for as hard as he could at the end of the 6th after his last stand offense, and he plopped down with no muscle control at the end of the round. He was being manhandled and muscled around the ring. How much longer, logically, do you think a guy like that has left? A guy that has been twice 1-punched KO'd, remember. Right. Not much.

Vitali, conversely, was fine when he was in his corner. He wasn't even breathing hard. He was fine, and only mildly annoyed that the doc was looking at his cut. As another poster mentioned, Vitali KO's guys later in a fight. Lewis doesn't. Vitali was just fighting his fight, feeling good. Despite that he took the fight on like 2-weeks notice and that his skin was tore open and blood was in his eye. He was ready to do whatever it took to defeat Lewis.

And that's it. Those are the facts. Sure, you can hold onto the 'fairy-tale' ending theory, and think Lenny would have overcome his fatigue, the scorecards, and the monster in front of him. Real life usually doesn't follow such a script.

And Rocky was the heavyweight champ, too.

Lewis retired. That's all you need to know. He knew, and he
knew that Vitali knew, too. Once you know you can't win, you
better walk away, or you're just going to get hurt in the next
fight.

So Lenny walked away. For good.

Shaun Spensley · 07-11-2007, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Rey

Yeah I really don't see how some think Vitali actually hit harder than that. I've never seen the elder Klitschko land right hand bombs like that before on anyone, and Lennox had multiple memorable right hand KO's in his career. Vitali's power doesn't even compare IMO.

well when they fought lennox was hurt on more than once.. vitali was never hurt. ovoiusly vitali could take a punch better than lewis, but i still think lewis had a good chin too.. when he saw the punch coming of course. but i still think vitali could punch harder, he is also bigger than lennox witch u have to take to acount

Dekkers · 07-11-2007, 09:52 AM

You're trying WAY too hard Paul

paulfv · 07-11-2007, 09:55 AM

You forgot to mention: "And succeeding."

Logic and facts always beat fanboy hopes. That's why I never make picks based on my heart anymore. Hopes = lost $$$. Gotta think clearly and unbiasedly, or else the sport will punish you, whether as a fighter, bettor or writer.

paulfv · 07-11-2007, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Rey

I agree he writes way too much. Take a chill pill Paulie.

Shaddup, Rey. You take your own chill pill, if you want. I'm a writer, this is what I do. I'm not a fanboy as you obviously are. Sorry if it was too much for you to read. Not my problem.

Dekkers · 07-11-2007, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulfv

You forgot to mention: "And succeeding."

Logic and facts always beat fanboy hopes. That's why I never make picks based on my heart anymore. Hopes = lost $$$. Gotta think clearly and unbiasedly, or else the sport will punish you, whether as a fighter, bettor or writer.

Alright then a few facts,

Fact; Lewis had won the last two rounds, the round before that was close.

Fact; Vitali had terrible facial damage as a result of Lewis' punches, Lewis' punches were making that damge more extensive as the fight wore on. Vitalis' vision quite frankly was becomming obscured, this can only be huge disadvantage if a fight goes on.

Fact; You and fellow writer Blocky will get on like house on fire.

Fact; Lewis TKO 6

Fact; Vitali has that great KO record you mentioned, against a pretty average resume.

Fact; Plenty of other guys who'll argue this stuff with you, you must be new here otherwise the thought of yet another thread dedicated to this crap would be making you wretch.

Mrboogie23 · 07-11-2007, 10:03 AM

Lewis

paulfv · 07-11-2007, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dekkers

Alright then a few facts,

Fact; Plenty of other guys who'll argue this stuff with you, you must be new here otherwise the thought of yet another thread dedicated to this crap would be making you wretch.

I've been here forever.

But the Lewis TKO 6 was funny.

Rey - It's been a long night. Can I have that pill?

Stimulant · 07-11-2007, 11:35 AM

paulfv is my american Idol

Stimulant · 07-11-2007, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dekkers

Alright then a few facts,

Fact; Lewis had won the last two rounds, the round before that was close.

Fact; Vitali had terrible facial damage as a result of Lewis' punches, Lewis' punches were making that damge more extensive as the fight wore on. Vitalis' vision quite frankly was becomming obscured, this can only be huge disadvantage if a fight goes on.

Fact; You and fellow writer Blocky will get on like house on fire.

Fact; Lewis TKO 6

Fact; Vitali has that great KO record you mentioned, against a pretty average resume.

Fact; Plenty of other guys who'll argue this stuff with you, you must be new here otherwise the thought of yet another thread dedicated to this crap would be making you wretch.

P.S Nice Avatar fag.

SugarShane_24 · 07-11-2007, 11:38 AM

i'd say lennox is ahead on this category. he KO'd better opposition and when lewis is on the mood to KO someone, it usually takes just one to end matters.

Let's just put it this way, Lennox has better power, but Vitaly seems to have a more accumulative effect.

Stinky gloves · 07-11-2007, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SugarShane_24

i'd say lennox is ahead on this category. he KO'd better opposition and when lewis is on the mood to KO someone, it usually takes just one to end matters.

Let's just put it this way, Lennox has better power, but Vitaly seems to have a more accumulative effect.

If you can look in defferent way, Lennox didn't KO a few opponetns
(some of them were great like Holyfield but some of them simply average).

Vitaly KO almost everybody he faced.

07-11-2007, 08:02 AM	#18
Ilesey P4P King East Side VIP Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Cymru Posts: 23,746 vCash: 0	Re: Which punching power better: Vitalys or Lewis'? Lewis is by far the harder puncher of the two.
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07-11-2007, 09:48 AM	#19
paulfv Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6,691 vCash: 1000	Re: Which punching power better: Vitalys or Lewis'? Dekkers, blistering, zulander - Please tell me you're kidding. As I said, go back and watch the rest of the round. Lewis was holding on for the last minute of the round. There is no evidence - none - that Lewis would have lasted even 2 more rounds. If by 'walking through' Vitali's shots, you mean hanging on for dear life, yes, Lewis was walking through Vitali's shots at the end of the fight. Lewis, before the fight, said he wanted 2-3 more fights after Vitali. Lewis told Vitali immediately after the fight that he would rematch him. Despite both of these, and other statements, Lewis soon after winning the 'cut lottery,' retired. Them's the facts, gents. As is the fact that Lewis was trailing on the scorecards and felt the need to take the mike out of Merchant's hand in the post-fight interview because he didn't like the questions. Lewis knew he got lucky, and so did everyone else, including Merchant. Lewis was a fine fighter who came along at the right time. Vitali was a destroyer, a totally dominant force. Never trailed on the scorecards in any fight, insanely high KO %, never KO'd, never KD'd. The most fortunate thing for Lewis and the other HW's was that Vitali kickboxed and got hurt from doing it. Other than that, Vitali would be undefeated and still reigning today, if he wasn't too bored and wanted Wlad to have a chance. Lewis has shown he can be 1-punch KO'd, let alone just KO'd, period. Vitali can't even be knocked down, let alone out. Lenny got lucky. Good for him. But all other evidence points out that Lewis was looking to get stopped, and stopped soon, in his fight with Vitali. His prayers were answered, as were those of his trembling fans. Had the cut gods not been appeased, things would have ended like this: http://www.irish-boxing.com/graphics...wis_rahman.jpg or this: http://www.boxingpress.de/fotos/mccall-lewis.jpg Fortunately for an out-gunned Lenny, the cut gods saved him. There aren't any pictures like that of Vitali. Because, at least as a pro (there's a story about him getting KO'd in amateurs by Maskaev, but I think he might have been injured, not sure), he doesn't get knocked out. Or knocked down. Lenny does, and does. And he was well on his way to doing both again. That's what happens when the bully meets a bigger bully. He retires. I understand if you want to go against all the relevant historical information, the scoring of the fight, etc. Just don't expect me to do that. I'm going to stay closer to the facts. Fact: Lewis trailed the entire fight Fact: Lewis had been KO'd before, and 1-punch KO'd Fact: Lewis was hanging on at the end of the 6th, dog-tired Fact: Lewis plopped down with no control on his stool after the 6th round ended. He was very, very gassed and appeared to be looking dejected that his heaviest shots weren't doing jack to Vitali Fact: Vitali was leading in the fight Fact: Vitali had never been knocked down, never knocked out, and never one-punch knocked out. He still hasn't had any of those 3 things happen to him since Fact: Vitali had Lewis hanging onto him at the end of the 6th round, after surviving the 'amazing' offensive rally of LL Fact: A very pissed-off-that-the-fight-had-been-stopped Vitali asked LL after the fight, immediately, for a rematch. LL said yes. There was no rematch, nor did LL ever fight again, despite saying before the fight he wanted several more fights after fighting Vitali Fact: Vitali KO's people; that's what he does. And he usually does it by systematically beating them down, as he was doing Lewis. That's why his KO % is > 90%, higher than any other HW in history, I believe. He is like a HW Julian Jackson (without the weak chin) or a HW Gerald McClellan - he destroys people. That's what all the evidence shows from his record. There is none - zero - factual basis from which to think LL would have either won or survived the fight. Even if you think Lewis won the last two rounds, he still trailed. He still would have had to have won two more rounds just to tie Vitali. Forget about beating him. He was two in the hole just to try to look for a draw. Through half the fight, Vitali led by two rounds. Now, you can make the fanboy leap and say "Oh, Lenny was coming on, he was on his way." Ok, despite that he was hanging on the last minute of the 6th round after his 'incredible' uppercut. Lenny shot his wad, and he was about to go out. Vitali was in full control at the end of the fight. Could Lenny have gotten one more 'second-wind?' Sure he could have. But there's nothing - absolutely nothing - to suggest he could have even hurt Vitali, let alone take him out. Vitali does not go down or out. That's a fact. Ok, so that means Lenny would have had to try to get a decision win. He was down two rounds, hanging on for as hard as he could at the end of the 6th after his last stand offense, and he plopped down with no muscle control at the end of the round. He was being manhandled and muscled around the ring. How much longer, logically, do you think a guy like that has left? A guy that has been twice 1-punched KO'd, remember. Right. Not much. Vitali, conversely, was fine when he was in his corner. He wasn't even breathing hard. He was fine, and only mildly annoyed that the doc was looking at his cut. As another poster mentioned, Vitali KO's guys later in a fight. Lewis doesn't. Vitali was just fighting his fight, feeling good. Despite that he took the fight on like 2-weeks notice and that his skin was tore open and blood was in his eye. He was ready to do whatever it took to defeat Lewis. And that's it. Those are the facts. Sure, you can hold onto the 'fairy-tale' ending theory, and think Lenny would have overcome his fatigue, the scorecards, and the monster in front of him. Real life usually doesn't follow such a script. And Rocky was the heavyweight champ, too. Lewis retired. That's all you need to know. He knew, and he knew that Vitali knew, too. Once you know you can't win, you better walk away, or you're just going to get hurt in the next fight. So Lenny walked away. For good.
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07-11-2007, 09:52 AM	#21
Dekkers Team Bergeron ESB Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Sydney Posts: 1,162 vCash: 1000	Re: Which punching power better: Vitalys or Lewis'? You're trying WAY too hard Paul
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07-11-2007, 09:55 AM	#22
paulfv Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6,691 vCash: 1000	Re: Which punching power better: Vitalys or Lewis'? You forgot to mention: "And succeeding." Logic and facts always beat fanboy hopes. That's why I never make picks based on my heart anymore. Hopes = lost $$$. Gotta think clearly and unbiasedly, or else the sport will punish you, whether as a fighter, bettor or writer.
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07-11-2007, 10:03 AM	#25
Mrboogie23 what the?? East Side VIP Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: New Mexico Posts: 10,809 vCash: 1000	Re: Which punching power better: Vitalys or Lewis'? Lewis
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07-11-2007, 11:35 AM	#27
Stimulant Journeyman ESB Jr Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 268 vCash: 1000	Re: Which punching power better: Vitalys or Lewis'? paulfv is my american Idol
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07-11-2007, 11:38 AM	#29
SugarShane_24 ESB good-looking member ESB Addict Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: the few, the proud, the Philippines Posts: 4,764 vCash: 449	Re: Which punching power better: Vitalys or Lewis'? i'd say lennox is ahead on this category. he KO'd better opposition and when lewis is on the mood to KO someone, it usually takes just one to end matters. Let's just put it this way, Lennox has better power, but Vitaly seems to have a more accumulative effect.
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