Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

 
  


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-11-2007, 03:15 PM   #16
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 37,233
vCash: 1000
Default Re: joe frazier: underated or overated?

[quote=mr. magoo]
Quote:



These men were NOT journeyman....
Seconded, Magoo.

But neither was Braddock, you swine.
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2007, 03:27 PM   #17
KTFO
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Default Re: joe frazier: underated or overated?

Quote:
These men were NOT journeyman....


Sure they were. Maybe A- or B-class journeymen. But journeymen.
 Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2007, 03:28 PM   #18
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 37,233
vCash: 1000
Default Re: joe frazier: underated or overated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KTFO
Sure they were. Maybe A- or B-class journeymen. But journeymen.
WTF is an A- class journeyman?

You're not another one of these people who doesn't really know what a journeyman is are you?
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 07-11-2007, 03:31 PM   #19
KTFO
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Default Re: joe frazier: underated or overated?

Quote:
WTF is an A- class journeyman?

A first-class journeyman.
 Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2007, 03:32 PM   #20
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 37,233
vCash: 1000
Default Re: joe frazier: underated or overated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KTFO
A first-class journeyman.
So, what's a journeyman?
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2007, 03:38 PM   #21
TBooze
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: South of London
Posts: 10,865
vCash: 301
Default Re: joe frazier: underated or overated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
So, what's a journeyman?
Any experienced, competent but routine fighter.
TBooze is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2007, 03:42 PM   #22
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 37,233
vCash: 1000
Default Re: joe frazier: underated or overated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBooze
Any experienced, competent but routine fighter.
I know that you dipshit, I wanted to see what he would say.

I also feel like it's a guy who hasn't improved since the end of their apprenticeship, you know, just didn't come on in terms of ability as he moved up.
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2007, 03:49 PM   #23
Senya13
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Russia
Posts: 3,863
vCash: 1210
Default Re: joe frazier: underated or overated?

Overrated.
Senya13 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2007, 03:58 PM   #24
KTFO
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Default Re: joe frazier: underated or overated?

Quote:
So, what's a journeyman?

C'mon, don't make me laugh.
 Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2007, 04:15 PM   #25
Sakura
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,803
vCash: 1000
Default Re: joe frazier: underated or overated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vantage_West
well in the 2nd foreman fight he did a floyd patterson he was in his punchers stance but was dancing at the same time. using a sort of jab jumping in striking and gettin out quick he showed a great performance on how a man who had fought in a style for 18 years could change it up and make it a different boxers friendly style.
i place him so highly becuase of his domination of the division against the best....and i mean the best especially for a man who was a cruiser wieght.
he had beaten ali who wasnt that far of from being out of prime. he had beaten bonavena and quarry. so it wasnt like he was out of it and frazier took the brunt of the force and took it back. if you look at the thrilla fight when joes' right eye closed...tht was it he was legaly bling in the left he was a blind fighter just using his instincts to fight and after all that he was still in a chance to win.
actually has he ever been outboxed? ive never seen him get out worked or outskilled.

hard to beat only big opwershot men could win lennox ,george,vitali (not wlad as he doesnt push his man away like vitali did), maybe larry , maybe louis....people who are big stay away and land big right hands,with a jab to stay clear of him. out of any other fighter i see few others beatin ghim marciano didnt have the handpeed or defencive mnouvers tyson didnt have the abilty to put enough punishment on him.
Protest, about you're saying that wlad dont win Frasier..this guy is smaller than CHRIS BYRD about 5'11, 205,5 lb...wlad will kill him, with his jab..frasier never get close enought.
Sakura is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2007, 04:33 PM   #26
KTFO
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Default Re: joe frazier: underated or overated?

Quote:
Protest, about you're saying that wlad dont win Frasier..this guy is smaller than CHRIS BYRD about 5'11, 205,5 lb...wlad will kill him, with his jab..frasier never get close enought.

Yeh, he probably would brewster him.
 Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2007, 04:38 PM   #27
Mendoza
Dominating a decade
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 14,226
vCash: 1000
Default Re: joe frazier: underated or overated?

Frazier is impossible to under rate as a fighter. He put forth great effort! However when the conversation shifts to all time great heavyweights, Frazier is not a top ten guy in my opinion. Frazier wins over Ali counts for a lot. Yes, but Cooper, and Jones nearly beat Ali pre Frazier. Young, and Shavers nearly or did beat Ali depending on your scoring preference. And of course Norton, Holmes, Spinks, and Berbick did beat Ali.

Frazier resume outside of the Ali and Foreman fights where he was 1-4 overall is somewhat thin for a top ten all time great. If Frazier had fought or beat Lyle, Liston, Norton, Shavers, R. Williams, Martin, M. Foster, we could say he could defeat a puncher who was his size or greater. Instead Frazier management preferred to match him vs non punchers or smaller boxer types who simply could not get Smokin’ Joe’s respect.
Mendoza is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2007, 05:48 PM   #28
Marciano Frazier
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,469
vCash: 1000
Default Re: joe frazier: underated or overated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakura
Protest, about you're saying that wlad dont win Frasier..this guy is smaller than CHRIS BYRD about 5'11, 205,5 lb...wlad will kill him, with his jab..frasier never get close enought.
Frazier was not smaller than Chris Byrd. Note that Byrd was 168 pounds when he was 23-24 years old- Frazier was already over 200 by that age. Byrd puffed himself up to fight at heavyweight.

Either way, though, your argument is paper thin. Lennox Lewis was smaller than Primo Carnera, so by your logic, I suppose Max Baer would batter him around the ring like a ragdoll, too.

Frazier was not a cautious, light-hitting defensive fighter who was uncomfortable being aggressive like Byrd, nor did he march forward blocking punches with his face like Lamon Brewster. Frazier was hyper-aggressive, he was fast, he came in low and had good head movement, he had an extremely high workrate, a murderous body attack and devastating knockout power in his left. Frazier would be all over Klitschko, and he would batter him to the body and break him down with non-stop pressure. Klitschko would be sagging around the ring by the middle rounds, at which time I expect Frazier would close the show.
Marciano Frazier is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2007, 06:05 PM   #29
Sakura
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,803
vCash: 1000
Default Re: joe frazier: underated or overated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marciano Frazier
Frazier was not smaller than Chris Byrd. Note that Byrd was 168 pounds when he was 23-24 years old- Frazier was already over 200 by that age. Byrd puffed himself up to fight at heavyweight.

Either way, though, your argument is paper thin. Lennox Lewis was smaller than Primo Carnera, so by your logic, I suppose Max Baer would batter him around the ring like a ragdoll, too.

Frazier was not a cautious, light-hitting defensive fighter who was uncomfortable being aggressive like Byrd, nor did he march forward blocking punches with his face like Lamon Brewster. Frazier was hyper-aggressive, he was fast, he came in low and had good head movement, he had an extremely high workrate, a murderous body attack and devastating knockout power in his left. Frazier would be all over Klitschko, and he would batter him to the body and break him down with non-stop pressure. Klitschko would be sagging around the ring by the middle rounds, at which time I expect Frazier would close the show.
Maybe i'm wrong but i wanna see that day, when wlad will lost, much smaller opponent, like Byrd or Frasier size fighter. Lamon is by the way, much heavier fighter with very good chin (Frasier chin is not that good)and good punch.

Seem's like almost everyone thinks that you can break wlad by punch to the body. It's much easier to say than do it. You must take hard punishment to do that and there is no many guys in history, who can do it, or maybe not anyone. klitchko with Stewart is strategy is almost unbeaten.
Sakura is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2007, 06:28 PM   #30
TBooze
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: South of London
Posts: 10,865
vCash: 301
Default Re: joe frazier: underated or overated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
I know that you dipshit, I wanted to see what he would say.
Then why ask?? We are not here to make fools of people...





However tempting
TBooze is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013