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Old 06-04-2014, 06:06 AM   #46
Azzer85
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Default Re: Who should Ali have fought but didn't?

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Originally Posted by BrutalForeman View Post
Ali was a shell of himself 1975+. Think he could have sustained Foremans clubbing shots for more than a few rounds?
Isnt that exactly what everyone said before the first fight?

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Originally Posted by BrutalForeman View Post
The first fight, Foreman was mismanaged big time. All credit to Ali, he was the king of mental games, but Foreman could have chipped away at him and waited to knock his head off his shoulders in the later rounds.
Not Alis problem, thats Foremans problem if hes mentally not good enough to deal with Ali. Foreman wasnt chipping away at anything, are you stupid? Ali lay on the ropes, Foreman hit him with everything he had and ran out of gas and got KTFO.

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Originally Posted by BrutalForeman View Post
If Foreman had a smart, savy trainer from the start he would have retired undefeated in the early 80s, and Ali would be remembered as Floyd Patterson with a good chin.
If Foreman had a vagina, his name would be Georgina but he doesnt, he has a penis so hes called George. Larry Holmes was waiting for Foreman, after Young, Foreman knew the game wa sup so he retired. Holmes would have ****ed him up big time. Foreman avoided Holmes even during the 90's where Holmes practically BEGGED Foreman for a fight. Foreman was content with fighting the Morrisons, Qawis, Moorers of the world. A whole collection of LHWs, CW and glass jawed fighters while conviniently avoiding the big guys like Bruno, Tucker, Ruddock, Mcall, Lewis and Bowe.

Ali is the greatest of all time, he knocked Foreman the **** out.

Deal with it

"Patterson with a good chin" i take it your one of those Klitscko ****suckers who believes size is everything?

your a joke, log off and **** off

Last edited by Azzer85; 06-04-2014 at 06:16 AM.
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Old 06-04-2014, 06:17 AM   #47
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Default Re: Who should Ali have fought but didn't?

You can go on and on about it, but Ali ducked Formans rematch request for YEARS. Theres a reason for that.

Ill say it again. ALI was Floyd Patterson with a granite chin, loud mouth, no respect and no class. Foreman missed his chance first time around but would have Coonied ALI in a rematch.
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Old 06-04-2014, 06:20 AM   #48
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Default Re: Who should Ali have fought but didn't?

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You can go on and on about it, but Ali ducked Formans rematch request for YEARS. Theres a reason for that.

Ill say it again. ALI was Floyd Patterson with a granite chin, loud mouth, no respect and no class. Foreman missed his chance first time around but would have Coonied ALI in a rematch.
Foreman this, Foreman that

Why would Ali duck Foreman, when he not only beat Foreman, but also beat the guy who beat Foreman too, in Young?

If Foreman was so good, what happened against Young?

Foreman wasnt going to do shit in the rematch. He didnt do much in the first fight either apart from gas. There was no rematch because Foreman wasnt simply wasnt good enough to get a rematch with Ali. There, its explained to you in its simplest terms.

WTF are you on about? Ali and Floyd Patterson have NOTHING in common, apart from their skin colour

Foreman goes down in history as one of the dumbest boxers ever, you ever heard of the rope a dope?

guess who the dope was.....

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Old 06-04-2014, 06:35 AM   #49
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Default Re: Who should Ali have fought but didn't?

Foreman was mismanaged and had a low ring IQ the first time around. No doubt about that. But he was the most destructive heavyweight fighter in history. If he had Dundee in his corner everything would have turned out differently.

Why do you think he was competitive in his late forties? He was a once in a lifetime destructive force.
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Old 06-04-2014, 06:45 AM   #50
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Default Re: Who should Ali have fought but didn't?

Muhammad Ali was a deplorable ducker. He ducked countless matches. Why do you think he never rematched Foreman once? Why do you think he ducked a fourth fight with Norton? Why do you think he ducked a third fight with Liston? Why do you think he ducked a third fight with Patterson? Why do you think he ducked a third fight with Cooper? Why do you think he never fought Frazier a fourth time? Why do you think there was no rubber match with Leon Spinks? Why wouldn't he fight Holmes a second time and retired to avoid it? Why do you think he wouldn't give Chuvalo his rightful third fight? Why didn't he give Quarry his third chance? Why not a third Bugner match? What's that? About a dozen clear ducks of fights that never happened right there? GOAT, my arse. GOAT DUCKER MAYBE!!!
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Old 06-04-2014, 06:52 AM   #51
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Default Re: Who should Ali have fought but didn't?

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Originally Posted by BrutalForeman View Post
Foreman was mismanaged and had a low ring IQ the first time around. No doubt about that. But he was the most destructive heavyweight fighter in history. If he had Dundee in his corner everything would have turned out differently.
Foreman wasnt suddenly going to turn into some boxing genious now was he? if he had, he would not have lost to Young. You still havent answered my point about why Foreman lost to Young, if he was supposedly so superior for the rematch with Ali?

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Why do you think he was competitive in his late forties? He was a once in a lifetime destructive force.
He wasnt really 'destructive' he lost as soon as he stepped up (Holyfield). He lost to Morrison, bar a lucky punch against a chinny and stupid Moorer, Foreman was losing that too. And these are his biggest fights in his second career.

He also ducked (yes DUCKED) Tucker, Bruno, Ruddock, Mcall, Lewis, Bowe and Larry Holmes, why are all these names missing? Foreman was active and champion around the same time these guys were active, why did he not face a single one of them?

Foremans second career was smoke and mirrors,
he faces Qawi (a former (LHW)
Holyfield (a former CW, who up until that point hadnt really been tested)
Morrison (a known chinny fighter)
Moorer (another LHW and also known as a chinny fighter)
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Old 06-04-2014, 08:42 AM   #52
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Default Re: Who should Ali have fought but didn't?

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Foreman wasnt suddenly going to turn into some boxing genious now was he? if he had, he would not have lost to Young. You still havent answered my point about why Foreman lost to Young, if he was supposedly so superior for the rematch with Ali?



He wasnt really 'destructive' he lost as soon as he stepped up (Holyfield). He lost to Morrison, bar a lucky punch against a chinny and stupid Moorer, Foreman was losing that too. And these are his biggest fights in his second career.

He also ducked (yes DUCKED) Tucker, Bruno, Ruddock, Mcall, Lewis, Bowe and Larry Holmes, why are all these names missing? Foreman was active and champion around the same time these guys were active, why did he not face a single one of them?

Foremans second career was smoke and mirrors,
he faces Qawi (a former (LHW)
Holyfield (a former CW, who up until that point hadnt really been tested)
Morrison (a known chinny fighter)
Moorer (another LHW and also known as a chinny fighter)
Yep, when Foreman was 15 years past his prime he had the gall to KO the Heavyweight champion of the world.
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Old 06-04-2014, 08:58 AM   #53
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Default Re: Who should Ali have fought but didn't?

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Yep, when Foreman was 15 years past his prime he had the gall to KO the Heavyweight champion of the world.
Ali still knocked him the **** out though
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Old 06-04-2014, 12:11 PM   #54
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Default Re: Who should Ali have fought but didn't?

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Originally Posted by BrutalForeman View Post
You can go on and on about it, but Ali ducked Formans rematch request for YEARS. Theres a reason for that.

Ill say it again. ALI was Floyd Patterson with a granite chin, loud mouth, no respect and no class. Foreman missed his chance first time around but would have Coonied ALI in a rematch.

If there was a specific amount of time that Ali 'ducked' Foreman,it would have been the nine months in between George's second fight with Joe Frazier and his loss to Jimmy Young - Hardly YEARS,as you put it. I've said it before and I'll say it forever,Foreman ruled himself out of contention throughout the whole of 1975 by not fighting.

Ali has said,a few times since,that if George had resumed boxing straight after Zaire,he'd have rematched him by the end of '75 instead of going for the rubber with Frazier. I see no reason to disbelieve this as Muhammad had a far easier time with Foreman than he did with Frazier or Ken Norton and he willingly gave both men third fights.
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Old 06-04-2014, 04:52 PM   #55
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Default Re: Who should Ali have fought but didn't?

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If there was a specific amount of time that Ali 'ducked' Foreman,it would have been the nine months in between George's second fight with Joe Frazier and his loss to Jimmy Young - Hardly YEARS,as you put it. I've said it before and I'll say it forever,Foreman ruled himself out of contention throughout the whole of 1975 by not fighting.

Ali has said,a few times since,that if George had resumed boxing straight after Zaire,he'd have rematched him by the end of '75 instead of going for the rubber with Frazier. I see no reason to disbelieve this as Muhammad had a far easier time with Foreman than he did with Frazier or Ken Norton and he willingly gave both men third fights.
Dont waste your time, according to this twat Ali was just Floyd Patterson with a better chin
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Old 06-04-2014, 06:56 PM   #56
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Default Re: Who should Ali have fought but didn't?

Norton deserved a rematch following the Yankee Stadium robbery and there was no way in the world Ali was going to give it to him .. he went on TV and begged for the Spinks rematch after his loss because he knew that if Leon fought Norton, his mandatory, Spinks would be crushed and then Ali would have had to fight Norton again and that he'd never regain the title ..
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Old 06-05-2014, 12:17 PM   #57
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Default Re: Who should Ali have fought but didn't?

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Dont waste your time, according to this twat Ali was just Floyd Patterson with a better chin

We all must have been severely underestimating Patterson in that case
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Old 06-05-2014, 11:33 PM   #58
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Default Re: Who should Ali have fought but didn't?

No point arguing with the Ali worshippers. Ali had his own rules and so do they. I guess Richard Dunn and Jean Pierre Coopman really were more deserving of George, who had the audacity to take some time off after a loss (before coming back to club the shit out of everyone). Floyd Patterson deserved his rematch with Liston, but George? No. Fighting with a not fully healed cut in a hostile environment was something that he merely should have overcome at the time. He certainly never, ever deserved another shot, when Chuck Wepner was in line. George, btw, would have fought Ali in 75 if offered, but wasn't. He then scored five kos in a row....but hell Coopman was European champ, right? Of course he deserved the shot. George had to fight super-slick Jimmy Young because Ali had all that unfinished business with the ultimate threat: Alfredo Evangelista. Evangelista's 13-1-1 record solidly qualified him, and he probably would've had KO'd Foreman had there been a box-off. So...don't worry everyone....the Ali legacy remains unblemished! Greatest of all time!!!!!!!!
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Old 06-06-2014, 01:21 AM   #59
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Default Re: Who should Ali have fought but didn't?

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Originally Posted by Vince Voltage View Post
No point arguing with the Ali worshippers. Ali had his own rules and so do they. I guess Richard Dunn and Jean Pierre Coopman really were more deserving of George, who had the audacity to take some time off after a loss (before coming back to club the shit out of everyone). Floyd Patterson deserved his rematch with Liston, but George? No. Fighting with a not fully healed cut in a hostile environment was something that he merely should have overcome at the time. He certainly never, ever deserved another shot, when Chuck Wepner was in line. George, btw, would have fought Ali in 75 if offered, but wasn't. He then scored five kos in a row....but hell Coopman was European champ, right? Of course he deserved the shot. George had to fight super-slick Jimmy Young because Ali had all that unfinished business with the ultimate threat: Alfredo Evangelista. Evangelista's 13-1-1 record solidly qualified him, and he probably would've had KO'd Foreman had there been a box-off. So...don't worry everyone....the Ali legacy remains unblemished! Greatest of all time!!!!!!!!
Oh it was the cut that lost the fight for Foreman

Or was it the hostile environment, you know the fourth foreign nation in a row Foreman had fought in

Its laughable that you make all of these excuses for Foreman and denigrate Ali's competition during this period then laud Foreman going life and death with Lyle (who Ali knocked out the previous year), beating a shot, one eyed Frazier (who Ali knocked out the previous year), and then "clubbed" the shit out of that legendary trio Agosto (2-3-1 in his last 6 fights), Ledoux (coming off of two consecutive losses), and Denis (who got the fight by decisioning LeDoux and who never beat anyone of note)... Of course that was all before getting dropped and losing a decision to Jimmy Young (who Ali defeated the year before) which preceded his epic and legendary meltdown "I died and saw jesus, lord have mercy!!! Im saved!!".

The bottom line is that its Foreman's job to prove that he deserved the shot and he did a shitty job at that. That debacle in Toronto and his inactivity didnt help that first year despite what some of his fanboys think Ali SHOULD have done. The situation is totally different from Patterson-Liston 2 because A. Many people thought, due to the quick KO, that it could have been a fluke and B. Liston had run through the rankings in such a way that Patterson was still the most lucrative fight out there. The same cant be said of Foreman because A. Ali schooled him over half the fight and then knocked him out and B. Ali, being the name, could make money against the bankable contenders already waiting such as Lyle, Young, Frazier, Norton, and on foreign soil against guys like Dunn, Coopman, and Bugner. It didnt help Foreman any that he wasnt the same fighter after getting his ass kicked by Ali as he was before either physically or mentally. Foreman gave interviews stating his intent to face Ali but in truth he never really seemed over eager for that fight. Ali was thought to be old and vulnerable before he fought Foreman and given Foremans career choices he seems to have been marking time, waiting for Ali to fade away rather than actually chasing the guy.

Regardless, you can prattle on and on about shoulda coulda wouldas but when they actually fought there was only one result and there was nothing in that result that should give Foreman fans any kind of hope that he would have done any better a second time around. The argument here that "if he would have been more patient and worked behind his jab and wore Ali down..." Uhhh, you want Foreman to get into a jabbing contest with Muhammad Ali? Really? Yeah, lets see how that works. Foreman isnt outboxing Ali, he isnt going to outjab him, and he isnt going to win a decision over him based either on points or stamina. His best chance is to do exactly what he did, try to blitz Ali and either take him out or beat him into submission. We saw how well that worked. Ali took that strategy and turned it inside out. There was no better option for Foreman.
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Old 06-06-2014, 08:23 AM   #60
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Default Re: Who should Ali have fought but didn't?

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Originally Posted by Vince Voltage View Post
No point arguing with the Ali worshippers. Ali had his own rules and so do they. I guess Richard Dunn and Jean Pierre Coopman really were more deserving of George, who had the audacity to take some time off after a loss (before coming back to club the shit out of everyone). Floyd Patterson deserved his rematch with Liston, but George? No. Fighting with a not fully healed cut in a hostile environment was something that he merely should have overcome at the time. He certainly never, ever deserved another shot, when Chuck Wepner was in line. George, btw, would have fought Ali in 75 if offered, but wasn't. He then scored five kos in a row....but hell Coopman was European champ, right? Of course he deserved the shot. George had to fight super-slick Jimmy Young because Ali had all that unfinished business with the ultimate threat: Alfredo Evangelista. Evangelista's 13-1-1 record solidly qualified him, and he probably would've had KO'd Foreman had there been a box-off. So...don't worry everyone....the Ali legacy remains unblemished! Greatest of all time!!!!!!!!
Very well said. +1.
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