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Old 07-09-2007, 12:36 PM   #1
DaveTheWave
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Default Basilio vs DelaHoya @ 147

How does this one go? I see the pressure and volume of Basilio taking the fight out of Oscar in around 10 rounds... Would Oscar be able to box and turn Carmen's face into hamburger meat or would Basilio outpunch and outman the golden one?
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Old 07-09-2007, 01:28 PM   #2
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Default Re: Basilio vs DelaHoya @ 147

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Originally Posted by DaveTheWave
How does this one go? I see the pressure and volume of Basilio taking the fight out of Oscar in around 10 rounds... Would Oscar be able to box and turn Carmen's face into hamburger meat or would Basilio outpunch and outman the golden one?
Welcome to the boards! I agree with your assessment. The manner of DLH's kayo loss to B-Hop was very telling to me, and Basilio could be devastating at either WW (as Tony Marino discovered), or MW (where he was one of only three people to take out another Goldenboy, Art Aragon, in 116 bouts Aragon had). Basilio was one of only two boxers to flatten Kid Gavilan in his 143 matches. (If Basilio hit DLH with the double left hook he dropped "The Keed" with, it would be "Nighty-night, Oscar!") I do think Basilio's 15 round pedigree comes into play here, and that he drowns Oscar in deeper water than you project. I figure Oscar would be outta there in closer to 14 rounds.
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Old 07-09-2007, 01:55 PM   #3
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Default Re: Basilio vs DelaHoya @ 147

It could be later than ten, I agree. It's a little early to tell, but I am surprised noone has come to Oscar's rescue... Probably due to the higher intellect than the caliber of those with whom I am used to dealing. I ask because I wonder sometimes how Oscar will be rated all-time after it's all said and done. Looking back, I'm ashamed of how pumped I always got for his fights- For his biggest fights, he always came up short or didn't perform. For all his talk and how he looked in training for PBF, I thought he was going to old-school Floyd and paste him (silly me). He owes me for at least 3 pay-per-views!!! Now I hear him saying he wants a Barrera-Morales type dogfight before he's through- He wants an opponent that will give him that... I say TOO LATE OSCAR- Number one, that's not your style, and you had your chance with Mosely, PBF, and most of all, to close the show against Trinidad. You blew it. Now Oscar will be relegated near-great status, or what could have been scenarios for a leagacy. He could have been great, he just didn't choose to (despite his great quality of opposition).
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Old 07-09-2007, 02:58 PM   #4
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Default Re: Basilio vs DelaHoya @ 147

It sometimes seemed as if DLH was more concerned about furthering his career in fashion modeling than winning boxing matches. (One-eyed Michael Olajide could have taught him the futility of that approach. If that vain, maybe boxing isn't the right line of work, at least not if wanting to capture and hold the public's imagination.)

It's an old story, the contestant who loses by playing not to lose, instead of throwing caution to the wind, and leaving everything to chance in order to have a stab at winning. Ultimately, I have to question DLH's heart and desire. (That Oscar was kayoed by a single bodyshot from B-Hop, rather than a sense separating punch to the head delivered because he left himself open in trying to attack, is very disturbing to me.)

Unlike DLH (who didn't even try to get up against Hopkins), Virgil Hill actually got up from RJJ's rib cracking bodyshot within ten seconds, and deserves to eventually be inducted into the IBHOF. (I think Hill already had established his qualifications for induction by the time of the Jones fight.) I don't know that I can buy De La Hoya as a legitimate HOFer.
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Old 07-09-2007, 05:50 PM   #5
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Default Re: Basilio vs DelaHoya @ 147

I can buy his IBHOF entry, as many fighters not half as accomplished or good are already there... He has done enough to get there, also if you consider his mainstream fame and the purses he earned (not that these are qualifications that should get anyone in, but he did make heavyweight money as a non-heavy), but he did win titles in several weight classes and fought just about everyone worth fighting. He'll get in, it's just a matter of his legacy- And in my opinion, one doesn't need to win all the big fights to be great, but you do need to leave it in the ring. I see so many fighters finish 12 rounds and not have a scratch or bruise, not be winded or even look tired! See Hearns- he didn't win the big ones, but he was out to win and win big. You could say the same about any of the greats. Frazier- he got smeared all over, but he gave his best. If you aren't even winded or marked up at the end of 12 rounds, you weren't trying hard enough. You're in a fight, for pete's sake!
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Old 07-09-2007, 07:01 PM   #6
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Default Re: Basilio vs DelaHoya @ 147

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Originally Posted by DaveTheWave
I can buy his IBHOF entry, as many fighters not half as accomplished or good are already there... He has done enough to get there, also if you consider his mainstream fame and the purses he earned (not that these are qualifications that should get anyone in, but he did make heavyweight money as a non-heavy), but he did win titles in several weight classes and fought just about everyone worth fighting. He'll get in, it's just a matter of his legacy- And in my opinion, one doesn't need to win all the big fights to be great, but you do need to leave it in the ring. I see so many fighters finish 12 rounds and not have a scratch or bruise, not be winded or even look tired! See Hearns- he didn't win the big ones, but he was out to win and win big. You could say the same about any of the greats. Frazier- he got smeared all over, but he gave his best. If you aren't even winded or marked up at the end of 12 rounds, you weren't trying hard enough. You're in a fight, for pete's sake!
Well put. I have the same beef with the IBHOF that many critics of various halls of fame share; that they have diluted the value of their prestige through rampant inclusion. Of course DLH will be inducted the instant he becomes eligible, but if the IBHOF was as relatively hallowed and difficult to gain entry to as the Baseball HOF for example, would DLH be among those who might be excluded? (Along with many questionable inductees. Should LeRoy Nieman, Don King, Bob Arum, Jose Sulamian and Ingo be in there? Naturally, I understand the die is already cast.)
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Old 07-09-2007, 08:17 PM   #7
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Default Re: Basilio vs DelaHoya @ 147

Nieman i can see, King I will concede (you have to give him his due for the positives, even if they don't outweigh the negatives), Arum... ehhh, okay. Ingo "one trick pony" Johannson I have trouble with, but I could be swayed. Jose Suliman is an abomination! What has he done besides add to the chaos and disorder, this man is an idiot! Have you seen what they do to rankings? (I'm sure you have) He's worse than King and Arum put together.
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Old 07-10-2007, 12:12 AM   #8
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Default Re: Basilio vs DelaHoya @ 147

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Originally Posted by DaveTheWave
Nieman i can see, King I will concede (you have to give him his due for the positives, even if they don't outweigh the negatives), Arum... ehhh, okay. Ingo "one trick pony" Johannson I have trouble with, but I could be swayed. Jose Suliman is an abomination! What has he done besides add to the chaos and disorder, this man is an idiot! Have you seen what they do to rankings? (I'm sure you have) He's worse than King and Arum put together.
Sulamain has paved the way for Butterbean and Mia St John to be inducted. Hell hath frozen over in Canastota during June (where potatoes now turn into maggots every IBHOF induction weekend).
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Old 07-10-2007, 08:41 AM   #9
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Default Re: Basilio vs DelaHoya @ 147

Basilio has a lot of knockouts in the championship rounds while Oscar tends to gas I see it being a close fight but Basilio's pressure pays and he tko's Oscar in 11.
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Old 07-10-2007, 08:46 AM   #10
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Default Re: Basilio vs DelaHoya @ 147

DLH outboxes Basilio silly.
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Old 07-10-2007, 06:09 PM   #11
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Default Re: Basilio vs DelaHoya @ 147

Basilio would be to much for oscar ,he is way to aggressive and tough as nalis
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Old 07-10-2007, 06:22 PM   #12
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Default Re: Basilio vs DelaHoya @ 147

De La Hoya loves aggressive fighters. Ruelas, Chavez, Trinidad, Gatti, Vargas. He finds it much easier to trigger off his combinations on come forward aggressors. Only when sharing a ring with slick technical boxers like Whitaker, Mosley, and Mayweather has he struggled to find a good balance of defending and attacking.

When forced to be the hunter, De La Hoya becomes something he really wants his oppnent to be, as he's never been quite comfortable on full attack mode.

Basillo could take De La Hoya's heavy weapons, including the left hook. But I'm confident De La Hoya could stop Basillo late.
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Old 07-10-2007, 07:05 PM   #13
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Default Re: Basilio vs DelaHoya @ 147

Mosely didn't come to him? Ruelas: smaller. Chavez: smaller and over the hill. Trinidad: came foreward, but froze when DLH punched. Gatti: too small; in over his head. Vargas: technically inferior and had the wrong plan. Basilio would be all over DLH all night long. If Mosely's activity bothered him (it did), Basilio would create problems for him.
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Old 07-10-2007, 07:40 PM   #14
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Default Re: Basilio vs DelaHoya @ 147

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Originally Posted by DaveTheWave
Mosely didn't come to him? Ruelas: smaller. Chavez: smaller and over the hill. Trinidad: came foreward, but froze when DLH punched. Gatti: too small; in over his head. Vargas: technically inferior and had the wrong plan. Basilio would be all over DLH all night long. If Mosely's activity bothered him (it did), Basilio would create problems for him.
During the first fight Mosley was not the aggressor. He backed off and used the jab. He used the matador tactics, and De La Hoya was the bull. Only during a couple of the late rounds did Mosley decide to stand trade leather with a tiring De La Hoya, and he simply out-punched him three to one. De La Hoya never varied his strategy throughout the course of the entire fight, and played into Mosley hands.

De La Hoya won the rematch, and outboxed Mosley behind the jab and lateral movement. [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] reversed from the first fight. Controversial decision I might add.

Basillo certainly aint got the handspeed and combinations of Mosley. And Mosley at 147lbs was at his peak regarding speed. I've got many of his lightweight fights, and his hanspeed is noticably slower.
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Old 07-11-2007, 02:16 AM   #15
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Default Re: Basilio vs DelaHoya @ 147

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There you are again, making a really ****ing shitty prediction. The predictions you make aren't opinions, they are simply stupidity.
Basilio was an exciting fighter, but wasn't very skilled. DLH loved to dissect not very skillful aggressive fighters. People talk about Basilio being stronger and with harder punch, I really don't see it. A KD of Gavilan doesn't make you a KO artist, when you are showing no signs of being a hard puncher the rest of your career. Just because he gave two fights to old SRR that doesn't make him a great fighter either, by that time Ray already slipped too far away from his prime.
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