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Old 03-14-2008, 09:40 AM   #1
ChrisPontius
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Default Who gave Carlos Monzon his closest or toughest fight?

And i'm talking about when he reached his prime, let's say from '68 to '77.
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Old 03-14-2008, 10:11 AM   #2
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Default Re: Who gave Carlos Monzon his closest or toughest fight?

Almost all of his wins were very comfortable without being thoroughly dominating.hard to think of any real action fights he was in that had visible shifts in momentum.

I'd go with Griffith 2.
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Old 03-14-2008, 10:23 AM   #3
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Default Re: Who gave Carlos Monzon his closest or toughest fight?

Having Beaten Emile before, Carlos seemed to be Cruising, as he often did, early against Emile, - He was on the Retreat most of the way against Briscoe, and badly buzzed in the 9th, I think the Briscoe fight whilst not closer on the cards, was probably more physically demanding in moving and keeping Bad Bennie on the outside,

The Valdez Fights were also more demanding, Effort and Attention wise, But Carlos was past his peak by then ( But still had something in that usually untapped reserve tank)
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Old 03-14-2008, 12:53 PM   #4
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Default Re: Who gave Carlos Monzon his closest or toughest fight?

Carlos was fighting against himself somewhat against Griffith in the rematch with weight problems before the bout. Carlos did not have much snap that night and Griffith fought a clever fight.

Bouttier and Briscoe gave Monzon plenty to think about, but Ted Spoon would have to say that Valdez gave Monzon the roughest ride, second time around.
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Old 03-14-2008, 02:14 PM   #5
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Default Re: Who gave Carlos Monzon his closest or toughest fight?

The second Valdez was the closest and against the best opponent.
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Old 03-14-2008, 06:10 PM   #6
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Default Re: Who gave Carlos Monzon his closest or toughest fight?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Spoon
Carlos was fighting against himself somewhat against Griffith in the rematch with weight problems before the bout. Carlos did not have much snap that night and Griffith fought a clever fight.

Bouttier and Briscoe gave Monzon plenty to think about, but Ted Spoon would have to say that Valdez gave Monzon the roughest ride, second time around.
Monzon also had been shot twice by his wife and one bullet stayed lodged in him, in either his shoulder or his arm, so that might explain his relatively lackluster rematches against Griffith and Bouttier, both of whom he dominated easier the first time around. Most fighters have losses and blowouts that you can refer to in their careers as negatives that can be used against them in assessing their over all worth as a fighter. Monzon just has a few relatively sub par fights that he still won. I believe that the Briscoe and Valdez fights were the toughest, but the rematch against Griffith was the closest.
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Old 03-14-2008, 07:15 PM   #7
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Default Re: Who gave Carlos Monzon his closest or toughest fight?

Quote:
Originally Posted by red cobra
Monzon also had been shot twice by his wife and one bullet stayed lodged in him, in either his shoulder or his arm, so that might explain his relatively lackluster rematches against Griffith and Bouttier, both of whom he dominated easier the first time around. Most fighters have losses and blowouts that you can refer to in their careers as negatives that can be used against them in assessing their over all worth as a fighter. Monzon just has a few relatively sub par fights that he still won. I believe that the Briscoe and Valdez fights were the toughest, but the rematch against Griffith was the closest.
Agreed
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Old 03-14-2008, 09:14 PM   #8
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Default Re: Who gave Carlos Monzon his closest or toughest fight?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bxrfan
Agreed
Griffith was 35 years old and much smaller than Monzon, and still
lost only by decision.

Interesting.
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Old 03-14-2008, 10:20 PM   #9
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Default Re: Who gave Carlos Monzon his closest or toughest fight?

Quote:
Originally Posted by red cobra
Monzon also had been shot twice by his wife and one bullet stayed lodged in him, in either his shoulder or his arm, so that might explain his relatively lackluster rematches against Griffith and Bouttier, both of whom he dominated easier the first time around. Most fighters have losses and blowouts that you can refer to in their careers as negatives that can be used against them in assessing their over all worth as a fighter. Monzon just has a few relatively sub par fights that he still won. I believe that the Briscoe and Valdez fights were the toughest, but the rematch against Griffith was the closest.
Even the first fight with Bouttier was a tough one, but Monzon did start to regress after 1973.
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Old 03-15-2008, 12:06 AM   #10
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Default Re: Who gave Carlos Monzon his closest or toughest fight?

Unbelievably consistent fighter, Monzon.
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Old 03-15-2008, 11:48 AM   #11
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Default Re: Who gave Carlos Monzon his closest or toughest fight?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longhhorn71
Griffith was 35 years old and much smaller than Monzon, and still
lost only by decision.

Interesting.
Not taking anything away from Emile Griffith, whom I hold in the highest esteem, but Monzon was not at his best for that rematch, with the previously disclosed bullet wounds and such, at his very best, it would have been another inside the distance win for Carlos Monzon, who I maintain is the greatest middleweight of all time, and one of the very greatest fighters of all as well. The greatset factor of all in making this so was Monzons strategic boxing mind and the rather cold and calculated quality he had, which was driven by an inner cruelty in his nature. If this man didn't have the sport of boxing, he would have spent most of his life in prison.
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Old 03-15-2008, 12:38 PM   #12
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Default Re: Who gave Carlos Monzon his closest or toughest fight?

I have never heard about the second griffith fight being close or even contentious until one poster recently claimed so. Do any posters think that the griffith fight was contentious,or was it a clear win for carlos?
Also,how do some of you feel that monzon coped with exceptional speed? Could he beat the great speedsters like jones at middle?
My research shows me he is the best middle of all times,but i would just like to hear how this great great boxer coped with speedsters from guys who followed his career closely and/or saw him live. Many thanks.
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Old 03-15-2008, 12:54 PM   #13
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Default Re: Who gave Carlos Monzon his closest or toughest fight?

Quote:
Originally Posted by red cobra
Not taking anything away from Emile Griffith, whom I hold in the highest esteem, but Monzon was not at his best for that rematch, with the previously disclosed bullet wounds and such, at his very best, it would have been another inside the distance win for Carlos Monzon, who I maintain is the greatest middleweight of all time, and one of the very greatest fighters of all as well. The greatset factor of all in making this so was Monzons strategic boxing mind and the rather cold and calculated quality he had, which was driven by an inner cruelty in his nature. If this man didn't have the sport of boxing, he would have spent most of his life in prison.

Good stuff. Also, Monzon was killing himself to make the weight that night- and had to run about 5 miles earlier to come within the limit. Good performance from Griffith nonetheless, he lands that looping right throughout the fight. But, again, Carlos seemingly scored a fight in his mind perfectly. He said later that after 10 the fight was level, or he was possibly just behind. Spot on. Thus, time to go to work in the final 3rd of the contest. Arguably his worst performance in a wolrd title fight, but unlike many other unprepared great champions (e.g. Duran on a few occasions, even Lennox Lewis) he still managed to eke out that win despite being far from his best.
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Old 03-15-2008, 12:56 PM   #14
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Default Re: Who gave Carlos Monzon his closest or toughest fight?

Quote:
Originally Posted by enquirer
I have never heard about the second griffith fight being close or even contentious until one poster recently claimed so. Do any posters think that the griffith fight was contentious,or was it a clear win for carlos?

Howard Cosell scored it close. Many will be going off that. But Cosell was a monumental bore and a total tit, of course. I think most have it between 3 and 5 round margin for Monzon.
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Old 03-15-2008, 12:57 PM   #15
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Default Re: Who gave Carlos Monzon his closest or toughest fight?

I think that, again, at his very best, and not the 1973 version, Monzon would have figured out and defeated Jones, eventually shutting him down, thereby coping with his speed. I believe that Monzon was one of the most resourceful fighters of all time, who utilized everything for his advantage, like his height, reach, the 15 round distance in those days, in particular. Monzon was also very physical, in that he would rough up his opponents with his elbows and shoulders, and wore his opponents down over the distance, suddenly turning it on with accurate power punches at critical moments. You would think he was out of range, or you were out of range, only to be hit and hit effectively. He would have taken Jones out to sea in those late championship rounds, and hit him on the chin with that forgotten right hand of his. Watch the 1972 Briscoe fight, or the two Valdez fights to see a master at work. But, oh, it was all so subtle. Monzon looked at times like he was there for the taking, but the other guy was the one who ended up taking the beating, and losing. He would have stopped Jones in the 14th or 15th after having him down a few times.
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