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Old 03-18-2008, 12:35 AM   #1
PH|LLA
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Default the shift from unlimited rounds to a fixed amount of rounds.

when did this happen and what specific event triggered it?
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Old 03-18-2008, 09:00 AM   #2
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Default Re: the shift from unlimited rounds to a fixed amount of rounds.

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Originally Posted by Pharaoh
when did this happen and what specific event triggered it?
Mostly the fighters and managers themselves. Way back when men were men they willing came out fighting long after the 15th bell.

The last scheduled title bout with an unlimited number of rounds was Jack Johnson vs Fireman Flynn

The last scheduled 20 round fight was Joe Louis vs Abe Simon.

I hold hope that boxing will bring back 15 round title fight for title unification matches.
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Old 03-18-2008, 09:01 AM   #3
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Default Re: the shift from unlimited rounds to a fixed amount of rounds.

I can't tell you exactly (some here do), but i think it was around the time when gloved boxing was introduced, somewhere at the end of the 19th century. In bareknuckle boxing, a round was over when one the fighters was on the ground and that could also be from a wrestling move.

The original Marquees of Queensberry rules do not restrict the number of rounds however, and they were around since 1867.
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Old 03-18-2008, 09:34 AM   #4
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Default Re: the shift from unlimited rounds to a fixed amount of rounds.

I don't understand what the return of 15 rounds would bring? You expecting heavyweight champs to improve their performances? I expect completely the opposite - they will be fighting even slower, trying to preserve strength for additional 3 rounds.
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Old 03-18-2008, 09:53 AM   #5
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Default Re: the shift from unlimited rounds to a fixed amount of rounds.

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Originally Posted by Senya13
I don't understand what the return of 15 rounds would bring? You expecting heavyweight champs to improve their performances? I expect completely the opposite - they will be fighting even slower, trying to preserve strength for additional 3 rounds.
I am for 15 rounds in title unification fights to make the event extra special.
IMO, 15 rounds would bring back the old time feel that boxing has lost. It will also produce more dramatic finishes! I think an odd number of rounds means less draws too.
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Old 03-18-2008, 10:06 AM   #6
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Default Re: the shift from unlimited rounds to a fixed amount of rounds.

I don't see logical reasoning why it would improve anything. How often did you see late dramatic finishes in the past (not counting the cases when an already losing fighter was knocked out after 12th round)? Not any more frequent, than with 12 rounds, how I see it. Title fights ending in a draw is not happening that often either, it also won't help to improve judges objectivity and qualification anyhow. Besides, why a draw is so bad, if the fight is really close?
Reduction of too many titles - I'm all for that, but 15 rounds would be rather meaningless change.
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Old 03-18-2008, 10:08 AM   #7
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Default Re: the shift from unlimited rounds to a fixed amount of rounds.

Heavyweights would have to get into great cardio condition and those 13-15 championship rounds, those 3 rounds make a big difference, I would expect a Sam Peter to drop 25-30 lbs and he could, James Toney 30 lbs and he could, and Briggs,Tua,Rahman, to get in real condition. the only division that has no CAP is the heavyweight division and this caused a lot of fat,lazy heavyweights in the 80's and it has continued, Bowe in the 90's and some overmuscled (overweight ) that are fighting today...Chagaev can tighten up and lose 15 lbs, 15 rds an extra 3, should come back IMO
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Old 03-18-2008, 10:14 AM   #8
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Default Re: the shift from unlimited rounds to a fixed amount of rounds.

Wishful thinking. Heavyweights will remain what they are, they will just fight at slower pace. Just like in the past, they weren't always coming in top shape for title fights, with few exceptions. I was gathering information for an article about long fights recently, and most of the time those very long fights turned into walking matches instead, with few if any blows struck during the round. It greatly increases the chance for injuries also, broken hands or arms were common thing for fights lasting over 20 rounds, when fighters are tired.

Last edited by janitor; 04-06-2007 at 07:09 PM.
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Old 03-18-2008, 10:23 AM   #9
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Default Re: the shift from unlimited rounds to a fixed amount of rounds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senya13
I don't see logical reasoning why it would improve anything. How often did you see late dramatic finishes in the past (not counting the cases when an already losing fighter was knocked out after 12th round)?
I can think of a number of cases where the championship rounds reversed the outcome.
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Old 03-18-2008, 10:35 AM   #10
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Default Re: the shift from unlimited rounds to a fixed amount of rounds.

I can think of by far greater number of cases where it didn't happen. As well as can think of a number of cases where the outcome was changed in rounds 10-12.
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Old 03-18-2008, 11:36 AM   #11
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Default Re: the shift from unlimited rounds to a fixed amount of rounds.

I think a big deal of history has change because of the 12 rounders.

More along the lines of

Marciano Walcott 1
Louis Conn 1
Louis Walcott 1(Perhaps)
Lamotta vs the Frenchmen.
I mean these guys pull teeth and nail and did a rally in the 13 or 14 or 15 rounds, to pull victory from the jaws of defeat. They did it because they had the 3 extral rounds.

I may be one of the few to belive that say Marciano or even Joe Fraizer who relly relie on the last 3 rounds to make it big, may have done less in a 12 round era than a 15 era. A slow starter like Fraizer wont have the warm up period like he did in his own era.
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Old 03-18-2008, 11:40 AM   #12
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Default Re: the shift from unlimited rounds to a fixed amount of rounds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senya13
I don't see logical reasoning why it would improve anything. How often did you see late dramatic finishes in the past (not counting the cases when an already losing fighter was knocked out after 12th round)? Not any more frequent, than with 12 rounds, how I see it. Title fights ending in a draw is not happening that often either, it also won't help to improve judges objectivity and qualification anyhow. Besides, why a draw is so bad, if the fight is really close?

Reduction of too many titles - I'm all for that, but 15 rounds would be rather meaningless change.
Its not the how often do 15 rounds change things, its the glory of it. Think Louis over Conn, Marciano ver Walcott, Holmes over ****ey, etc...

Or if you want a modern example, what if Hagler vs Leonard was 15 rounds. What if Pacquaio vs Marquez was 15 rounds?

In a 12 round fight, draws are too easy, and IMO its is easier for a bad decsion to be given. In a 15 round fight draws are less common, and the decsions are less likely to rob someone.
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Old 03-18-2008, 12:21 PM   #13
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Default Re: the shift from unlimited rounds to a fixed amount of rounds.

I too think for the mega fight - between the best two guys in the division, it should be 15 rounds. Too many close and controversial decisions in 12 rounders, that wouldn't have been so if they had fought another 3 rounds.
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Old 03-18-2008, 12:50 PM   #14
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Default Re: the shift from unlimited rounds to a fixed amount of rounds.

Anyone with a copy of the Ring Record Book and Encylopedia knows that the establishment of the 15 round distance came about because that proved to be the perfect trade-off between skill and endurance.

Everybody knew at the time the artifically imposed 12 round limit was created that it would reward inferior conditioning and discipline, along with the ingestion of growth enhancing substances.

The gutting of boxing's history occurred instantly. Bobby Chacon dethroned Bazooka Limon in 1982's Fight of the Year because it was the final WBC title bout scheduled for the championship distance. Early the next year, Edwin Rosario became a champion exclusively because of the gay, pussified, feminized 12 round distance, when Jose Luis Ramirez was denied the opportunity to finalize his clear superiority over Rosario during the same championship rounds Chacon was also man enough to prevail in.

However, at the dawn of the 1900s, Jim Jeffries had prevailed in the first Corbett fight exclusively because of endurance, not because he had superior skills. Corbett was clearly the better boxer, virtually shutting out Jeff over the first 15. Jack Johnson later did this to Jess Willard in Havana. If all fights were scheduled for 45 rounds or longer, then Tex Cobb would be the HW GOAT today. The Gans/Nelson classic in Goldfield was scheduled for 45 rounds, went 42, but all the significant action occurred in the first 15. In more recent times, Gans/Nelson I would have been stopped in round 15.

Over the final several rounds of the 61 rounder between Corbett and Jackson, neither was able to do much of anything, except move around a little bit. By gradual process of natural selection, it became established that 15 rounds was an optimal length for well-disciplined world class boxers to consistently perform at a high level without diminishing. It was the best distance for awarding ring generalship and strategy, as well as conditioning.

Evander Holyfield was a great 15 round cruiserweight. But as soon as the pansy-assed 12 round limit became artificially and arbitrarily imposed, his muscles inflated from steroid use, and senile old farts were able to box into their nursing home years despite being fat old ****s, where the masculine 15 round distance would have forced them to remain in decent physical condition, without injecting substances in their asses for inflating oxygen gobbling muscles. Bring back the 15 round distance, and they'll abruptly shrink in size just like professional wrestlers did when steroids became criminalized. You would also see the average age of a world class boxer drop back below 65 years old to a more robust, energetic and entertaining youthful assortment of competitors.

The 12 round limit is ideal for accomodating boxing's pink skirt wearing, Viagra munching ***gots. That's why real men don't compete in professional prizefighting anymore. They've taken their naturally testosterone laden virility elsewhere.

A 15 round fighter might have a tattoo saying "Exit Only" on their hairy butt cheeks. Boxers too wimpy to prevail over the championship distance might have a tattoo saying "Welcome" on their smooth shaven backsides.

The last man to hold the world's heavyweight championship was Larry Holmes. After Jose Sulaiman (which is Spanish for *****) and his harem of WBC dip**** butt****ers imposed their squish agenda to eliminate the 15 round distance from championship competition, Larry abandoned it in order to establish the IBF title over the scheduled adult 15 round distance.

Of course Witherspoon took the WBC crown that Larry vacated, by decisioning Fatso in a drab 12 rounder. (This is because Terrified Tim wanted no part of Larry in a 15 round IBF rematch.) Years later, Holmes had become such a mean old fart that he wanted to take on Mercer over 15 rounds. But all of boxing's limp wristed governing overseers had come out of the closet by then, and wouldn't allow it. They wanted Larry to box Mercer in a ten rounder, but Holmes insisted on 12 rounds. Boxing could use more crusty mean old farts like Larry today, men who drink booze during a fight, then barf it up, like Sullivan did against Kilrain, and like Holmes did as he finished with Holyfield. Manly boxers do not drink tea with pinkies extended. (Holmes would drink Lennox under the table. And like Dempsey and Tunney, Larry don't need no ****in' Donnie Trump to validate his business acumen.)

Thanks to the 12 round era, I was temporarily blinded by the spectacle of an upskirt camera shot of "Macho" Camacho in his corner, being tended to by his cosmotologist between rounds. (I forget his opponent, but it might have been Boy George.)

Due to the travesty of the 12 round limit, bodypunching is rarely displayed anymore. They're afraid of crunching the uterus of their opponents. I'd rather watch the more manly "Chickfights" on youtube.
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Old 03-18-2008, 02:59 PM   #15
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Default Re: the shift from unlimited rounds to a fixed amount of rounds.

You are talking about several fights out of many hundreds of championship fights. People who think there is less chance of a controversy in a 15-round fight... Kid Gavilan had had not that many title fights. Out of them ones against Billy Graham, Bobby ****s, Carmen Basilio and Carl (Bobo) Olson ended in split decisions. Ray Robinson vs Basilio and Pender. Ted Kid Lewis, Gene Tunney, Harry Greb, Tiger Flowers, Mickey Walker and many other fighters had lots of close fights where 15 rounds didn't help a little bit to deside a clear winner (it is especially true for NWS era). 15 rounds are no solution whatsoever, it's only an illusion.
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