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Old 07-14-2007, 08:30 AM   #46
Senya13
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Default Re: Hearns - Power...

Duran's best weight means a lot. The point is he didn't face many big punchers above his natural weight. Both McClellan and Jackson would rid of him in the very first round at 154 or 160. Hagler was never a big puncher, and Duran lost by very wide margin to Hagler, the scorecards were completely off, and most people agree that Hagler wasn't fantastic, he paid Duran too much respect than he should have. More fights at 154lb - losses to Benitez and Laing. 154 was quite probably the worst weight for Duran, based on results of his fights there, i.e. based on facts. Barkley was primitive slugger without that much power, it was only Hearns' glass jaw at those weights that made Barkley look like big puncher.
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Old 07-14-2007, 08:46 AM   #47
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Default Re: Hearns - Power...

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Originally Posted by Senya13
Duran's best weight means a lot. The point is he didn't face many big punchers above his natural weight. Both McClellan and Jackson would rid of him in the very first round at 154 or 160.
Yeah, sure they would. RJJ too of course. I wouldn't back Jackson to beat him let alone stone cold the man. Hagler and Barkley are big enough punchers to prove his chin beyond doubt at the higher weights. Hell, Davey Moore could bang ok. LOL@ your faith and sureness in these two stopping a defensive fighter like Duran in 1 round. I've seen some brash statements in my time, and this one is right up with some of the best.

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More fights at 154lb - losses to Benitez and Laing. 154 was quite probably the worst weight for Duran, based on results of his fights there, i.e. based on facts.
Yeah mate, whatever suits your argument lol. You just go discount his wins over Moore and Barkley as well as his nice showing vs Hagler. Both Laing and Benitez were good boxers and most everyone realises the trouble Duran had at higher weights was with slicksters, not bangers. Hearns was a fantastic blend of both, as proven vs Duran. Jackson and Gerald aren't slicksters. Still lmao at your sureness, both KO 1.

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Barkley was primitive slugger without that much power, it was only Hearns' glass jaw at those weights that made Barkley look like big puncher.
Barkley was a fine puncher. Simple as that.
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Old 07-14-2007, 09:32 AM   #48
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Default Re: Hearns - Power...

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You just go discount his wins over Moore and Barkley as well as his nice showing vs Hagler.
Are you able to pay attention to what I say?
154lb. Now tell me what weight he fought Hagler and Barkley at?
At 154 Duran showed his worst results than at any other weight. But still "he was at his best there", yeah right... I mean, wrong. The facts contradict him being at his best at that weight, clear as daylight.

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Barkley was a fine puncher. Simple as that.
Fine puncher? That akward slugger with mediocre defense, offense and footwork, and lack of knowledge about ring generalship, was a fine puncher?
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Old 07-14-2007, 09:39 AM   #49
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Default Re: Hearns - Power...

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Originally Posted by Senya13
Are you able to pay attention to what I say?
154lb. Now tell me what weight he fought Hagler and Barkley at?
At 154 Duran showed his worst results than at any other weight. But still "he was at his best there", yeah right... I mean, wrong. The facts contradict him being at his best at that weight, clear as daylight.
Listen up and listen good for once, if Duran can take punches at 135, 147 and 160 he can sure as hell take them at 154, comprehendo? Or is this too difficult a concept for your agenda here? Do you think 154 has this special hocus pocus come into focus that takes away Duran's chin and ability? Blind Freddie can see Duran had bad losses at 160 as well. Just sit back and accept Duran has a great chin at all weights like the rest of planet earth.
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Old 07-14-2007, 10:10 AM   #50
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Default Re: Hearns - Power...

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Originally Posted by Manassa
Perhaps. I don't really know where Arguello got his one-shot power from - he wasn't that fast or anything. His punches were straight and full of leverage but so were many others' shots and they didn't have the same effect as Arguello's. It's a mystery. Maybe he had just the right balance. Or timing? He might have learned to hit at precisely the right moment.
Yes. Arguello was a precision puncher. He was like a computer, he timed the shot to land precisely where the chin was going to be, and then placed himself at the optimum distance to deliver maximum force. This more than compensated for lack of speed. Every shot was leveraged and whipped and set up with dum-dum shots designed to get the chin where he wanted it (left hooks, lazy feints). He also had heavy hands.

I rank him as the single best "precision-puncher" ever.
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Old 07-14-2007, 10:44 AM   #51
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Hey all!,Have'nt been on here in a while,and this post is awesome,let me just say that Hearns is the reason I like this sport so much. And am a big big fan of the Hit man for so many years later. I first started following him during and after the first Leonard fight. Even before he came back into championship status,I knew this guy had just way too much talant and power to stay down. I remeber the Benitez fight where he won the championship again,and the blowout of Duran was Clearly Hearns greatest moment. I was actually at the Hutchings fight in Saginaw MI where Hearns knocked him out in the third. And the defeat to Hagler? The way it happened,with the way they slugged it out caught many of us off guard. Hearns legs and broken hand eventually forced him to slug it out,not taking anything away from Marvelous victory.And years later the draw with Leonard 2? BS BS like the crowd said. Long live the Hit Man,a fighter with minor flaws,but awesome strengths!!!
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Old 07-14-2007, 10:47 AM   #52
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Default Re: Hearns - Power...

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Originally Posted by 80s champs
Hey all!,Have'nt been on here in a while,and this post is awesome,let me just say that Hearns is the reason I like this sport so much. And am a big big fan of the Hit man for so many years later. I first started following him during and after the first Leonard fight. Even before he came back into championship status,I knew this guy had just way too much talant and power to stay down. I remeber the Benitez fight where he won the championship again,and the blowout of Duran was Clearly Hearns greatest moment. I was actually at the Hutchings fight in Saginaw MI where Hearns knocked him out in the third. And the defeat to Hagler? The way it happened,with the way they slugged it out caught many of us off guard. Hearns legs and broken hand eventually forced him to slug it out,not taking anything away from Marvelous victory.And years later the draw with Leonard 2? BS BS like the crowd said. Long live the Hit Man,a fighter with minor flaws,but awesome strengths!!!
You should post more often

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Old 07-14-2007, 10:48 AM   #53
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Default Re: Hearns - Power...

Oh by the way,does anyone know of the feedback some of his opponents said of him after they've faced him??? Leonard,Hagler,Duran? How they've rated his power? I heard Hearns and Hagler are friends now.
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Old 07-14-2007, 11:16 AM   #54
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Default Re: Hearns - Power...

Listen up. Duran was a natural lightweight.Above 135lb the biggest puncher he faced was Hearns, and that was 19 pounds above Duran's best weight. Not at any time after that Duran faced any really big puncher to prove he could take their punches. The fact that Hearns' dented his chin so easily shows Duran climbed up too high.
Other Hearns' fights at 154lb:
Mike Colbert W-PTS10
Fighting Jim Richards W- KO3
Santiago Valdez W-TKO1
Eddie Gazo W-KO1
Marcos Geraldo W-KO1
Wilfred Benitez W-MD15
Luigi Minchillo W-UD12
Fred Hutchings W-TKO3
Mark Medal W-TKO8

Unless you want to say that Duran had a chin that was worse than Colbert's, Richards', Benitez', Minchillo's, Hutchings' and Medal's, that he lasted less time against Hearns than all these fighters did.
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Old 07-14-2007, 11:25 AM   #55
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Default Re: Hearns - Power...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senya13
Listen up. Duran was a natural lightweight.Above 135lb the biggest puncher he faced was Hearns, and that was 19 pounds above Duran's best weight. Not at any time after that Duran faced any really big puncher to prove he could take their punches.
Lets talk before, like one fight before. Do you not rate Hagler as a puncher? (wouldn't damn well surprise LOL) Hagler whilst not quite a one shot man was possibly the most debilitating accumulation puncher in boxing. Simply look at his stoppage record a bit before and after Duran. You'll have excuses tho. Since you don't rate (convenient) Barkley as a puncher we don't need to talk about the missile that sent him spinning, right? Wasn't it you implying Hagler feared Leonard's punches more than Hearn's?!?!! Duran survived Ray quite ok. How bout Pipino, may have aged but don't even begin to tell me he still didn't have the punch. Moore punched well too. Of course you'll write them off to suit the agenda.

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Unless you want to say that Duran had a chin that was worse than Colbert's, Richards', Benitez', Minchillo's, Hutchings' and Medal's, that he lasted less time against Hearns than all these fighters did.
Tell me Senya, did Duran have a less worhty chin than those guys?

Still lmgfao @ Jackson and Gerald taking out Duran in 1 round

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Old 07-14-2007, 11:39 AM   #56
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Default Re: Hearns - Power...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senya13
Listen up. Duran was a natural lightweight.Above 135lb the biggest puncher he faced was Hearns, and that was 19 pounds above Duran's best weight. Not at any time after that Duran faced any really big puncher to prove he could take their punches. The fact that Hearns' dented his chin so easily shows Duran climbed up too high.
Other Hearns' fights at 154lb:
Mike Colbert W-PTS10
Fighting Jim Richards W- KO3
Santiago Valdez W-TKO1
Eddie Gazo W-KO1
Marcos Geraldo W-KO1
Wilfred Benitez W-MD15
Luigi Minchillo W-UD12
Fred Hutchings W-TKO3
Mark Medal W-TKO8

Unless you want to say that Duran had a chin that was worse than Colbert's, Richards', Benitez', Minchillo's, Hutchings' and Medal's, that he lasted less time against Hearns than all these fighters did.
Hearns was fully motivated for the Duran fight and he made the bold prediction that he would KO Duran in the 2nd. He was going to prove everyone wrong, that was possibly the best Hearns ever seen. Perhaps the other fighters fought a Hearns who was somewhat less motivated or maybe impaired (eg Benitez)
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Old 07-14-2007, 12:17 PM   #57
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Default Re: Hearns - Power...

Hagler was accumulation puncher and Duran was one tough SoB when it came to handling prolonged punishment. He took it well, but chin and toughness are two different things. Cuevas was clearly on the way down, Hearns ruined him as a fighter.
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Old 07-14-2007, 12:23 PM   #58
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Default Re: Hearns - Power...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senya13
Hagler was accumulation puncher and Duran was one tough SoB when it came to handling prolonged punishment. He took it well, but chin and toughness are two different things. Cuevas was clearly on the way down, Hearns ruined him as a fighter.
So let me get this straight, Duran could handle debilitating accumulation but bigger punches at the higher weight were different LOL. Duran survived some serious punches off Barkley,who had stopped Olijade, who had never been stopped. Barkley has some pop, whether you want to admit it or not.

Back to my question, which of those guys had better chins at 154 than Duran, Senya?
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Old 07-14-2007, 01:14 PM   #59
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Default Re: Hearns - Power...

Some fighters can survive terrible punishment from accumulative punches, but there's a difference between getting hit with heavy, but lacking sharpness, timing and precision punches, such as Foreman's, for example, and single sharp perfectly timed punches, such as Julian Jackson's or Shavers', for example. Duran could stand the former, no doubt, but he wasn't invulnerable to the latter (going back as far as the DeJesus fights). The reason why he wasn't stopped at those higher weights, except the Hearns fight, was because he didn't face fighters who were good at 2nd type of punches.
Those fighters who lasted longer against 154lb Hearns were naturally bigger than Duran. There's a reason why fighters are separated by divisions.
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Old 07-14-2007, 01:26 PM   #60
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Default Re: Hearns - Power...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senya13
Some fighters can survive terrible punishment from accumulative punches, but there's a difference between getting hit with heavy, but lacking sharpness, timing and precision punches, such as Foreman's, for example, and single sharp perfectly timed punches, such as Julian Jackson's or Shavers', for example.
I'd hardly seperate Foreman and Shavers as vividly as you have done. I'd put Shavers halfway between a clubber and a sharp hitter myself. Tyson was sharp.

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Duran could stand the former, no doubt, but he wasn't invulnerable to the latter (going back as far as the DeJesus fights).
Because Esteban dropped him for a couple of secs?

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The reason why he wasn't stopped at those higher weights, except the Hearns fight, was because he didn't face fighters who were good at 2nd type of punches.
And Hearns just so happens to be ranked by plenty as the number one of that type of puncher, certainly top 5 lol. SRL poleaxed quite a few guys at 147 and above yet Duran was barely worried by his blows. Leonard is certainly the second category of puncher. Lets just face it, Hearns was a huge banger and 100% on his game that day. Simple.

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Those fighters who lasted longer against 154lb Hearns were naturally bigger than Duran. There's a reason why fighters are separated by divisions.
Tell that to James Toney, world champ at 160 and still taking the biggest shots from guys weighing 240 odd. 80 odd pounds. Makes Duran's 19 look fruit. Fact is Duran's chin is comparable to Toney, one KO vs a guy some rate the greatest hitter ever is excusable when one looks at Roberto's entire career.
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