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Old 07-14-2007, 12:37 PM   #61
Senya13
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Default Re: Hearns - Power...

Rahman, Ruiz, Peter, they aren't 2nd type of punchers. And Toney certainly wasn't a natural 160-pounder, his natural weight was somewhere around light heavyweight or cruiserweight. His big head and short thick neck looked weird when looking at his 160-168 fights.
Considering KO loss of Duran at 154 lbs whereas Duran was a natural lightweight, certainly can't serve as a proof of Hearns' ungodly punching power, we have to look at guys of similar size as himself or bigger whether and how they could handle his punches, and how consistent he was, if we want to evaluate his punching power. And there we see he wasn't very consistent at all.
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Old 07-14-2007, 12:44 PM   #62
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Default Re: Hearns - Power...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senya13
Rahman, Ruiz, Peter, they aren't 2nd type of punchers. And Toney certainly wasn't a natural 160-pounder, his natural weight was somewhere around light heavyweight or cruiserweight. His big head and short thick neck looked weird when looking at his 160-168 fights.

Ah, so Toney just happened to be only vulnerable against 2nd type punchers too i see. How on earth do you know 1st type punchers would have had an effect on him anyway? Sounds like speculation. Maybe Duran was a natural welter too.

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Considering KO loss of Duran at 154 lbs whereas Duran was a natural lightweight, certainly can't serve as a proof of Hearns' ungodly punching power, we have to look at guys of similar size as himself or bigger whether and how they could handle his punches, and how consistent he was, if we want to evaluate his punching power. And there we see he wasn't very consistent at all.
Rubbish. Cuevas had an iron chin. Roldan was tough, Duran, Schuler had never been down i think, yoyoing Andries at 175, pretty much a 1 punch stop vs Maynard at 180, stunned Hagler, dropped Leonard, stopped heaps who had never been stopped etc etc etc etc. Also factor in two spells of hand problems. Stunned Hill too. Nah, there's no doubting the Hearn's power.
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Old 07-14-2007, 01:15 PM   #63
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Default Re: Hearns - Power...

Senya, you're getting a hiding here mate. Oh if I had to put it into boxing terms it would be like RJJ vs Tarver II. Let it go.
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Old 07-14-2007, 01:31 PM   #64
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Default Re: Hearns - Power...

Cuevas fight was at 147. Roldan might have been tough, but like I said, there are different kinds of toughness. Some guys can take terrible punishment with clubbing punches, but one or two perfectly timed punches to the chin, and they are out. You have to take guys who took clean flush punches to the head from hard-hitting punchers (not the slow clubbing ones) without going down, then that would be indicating for their chin toughness. Maynard was a foul blow to the back of the head, Hearns should have been disqualified for it. Stunning people happens a lot, and you don't need to be a big puncher for it. I'm not argueing that Hearns didn't have power, I'm saying that his power at 160 or above is not that intimidating as people seem to think, each time recalling the Duran and Cuevas fights, which happened at lower weights, where Hearns indeed was a fearsome puncher. 160 and above - you have to consider the facts, he was not a KO artist and it usually took him a lot of clean punches to put the guy down or out, and even that happened not very often. Guys like Jackson, McClellan, Shavers, Tua, usually didn't need many clean punches.
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Old 07-14-2007, 01:41 PM   #65
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Default Re: Hearns - Power...

Hearns was a big pucher I mean he had power at every weight he was at. Don't try to underrate Hagler's power dude could punch(52 KOS) and Duran could take a shot. He took shots from Hagler and Iran Barkley. Hearns just caught him with a fast huge right hand on the chin.
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Old 07-14-2007, 01:58 PM   #66
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Default Re: Hearns - Power...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senya13
Cuevas fight was at 147. Roldan might have been tough, but like I said, there are different kinds of toughness. Some guys can take terrible punishment with clubbing punches, but one or two perfectly timed punches to the chin, and they are out. You have to take guys who took clean flush punches to the head from hard-hitting punchers (not the slow clubbing ones) without going down, then that would be indicating for their chin toughness.
Different kinds of toughness? Sorry Senya but what you just posted above is gobbledygook.
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Old 07-14-2007, 05:21 PM   #67
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Default Re: Hearns - Power...

Here's one for everyone,could Hagler have taken the final punch Hearns landed on Duran? Great leverage there. And I wonder if a fully motivated,more seasoned middleweight Hearns could have handled Hagler better,(you know,the legs and Broken hand situation). It seems like when he fought Shuller,he was more seasoned at the weight he was at than in the first Hagler fight. .
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Old 07-14-2007, 05:35 PM   #68
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Default Re: Hearns - Power...

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Originally Posted by laxpdx
Hearns' power above 154lb is grossly overrated.

Tell that to Duran.
Yeah, and Duran would probably say he wouldn't know since he never fought Tommy above 154.
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Old 07-14-2007, 05:36 PM   #69
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Default Re: Hearns - Power...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fists of fury
Or James Schuler.
Or Juan Roldan.
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Old 07-14-2007, 08:34 PM   #70
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Default Re: Hearns - Power...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger
Different kinds of toughness? Sorry Senya but what you just posted above is gobbledygook.
Yeah, i think i'll let this one sit now it's getting even sillier
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Old 07-15-2007, 11:12 AM   #71
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Default Re: Hearns - Power...

John thomas has very kindly refuted most of the stuff that senya has wrote.....
One should also realise that tommy possibly had to box more at the higher weights as the opponent punched harder,were bigger and he had less physical advantages compared to 147 and 154...hearns is one of the few who hurt/stopped or knocked out guys with one punch aboce his starting championship weight...Did jackson,benn or g-man compete at the weight range tommy did for power? G-man could not stop benn,while benn was stopped by collins,watson and eubank,collins and watson not being notable punchers. Benn was wobbled by mauro galvano and many others... Jackson could not put a dent in g-man,quincy taylor or mike mccallum,does this make him a less than atg puncher? Benns knockouts diminshed greatly from 160 to 168,yet he is still regarded as a great puncher...
Hearns visibly hurting hagler is proof of his middleweight power,dennis andris being bounced off the canvas by a single right hand at LT HEAVY and getting up at 6 and shaky shows that he had plenty of power above 160...Andries had only been stopped by a HEAVY up till this point in his career and was a solid durable lt heavy.
Regardless of whether some guys can take accumulation but not snappy punches (a dubious one anyway.) tommy beat plenty of these 'accumulation' type guys with single shots or so,that shows power however you slice it...
Does anyone think jones is a puncher above 168? Cause he aint had a stoppage for five years....tarver was knocked down by hopkins who also stopped johnson,does this mean hopkins was a better puncher than jones?
We have to accept that styles can affect knockout results and some guys fight defensively and dont engage which makes it very hard to ko them,other fighters know how to hold,duck or spoil,and some fighters are just plain hard to knockout easily regardless of your power...
Anybody who thinks tommy couldnt punch as an atg above 154 is ignoring some glaring facts as well as footage evidence.....
Ps; i think if tommy hit hagler on the point of the chin with the shot he hit duran with then hagler would either be knocked down ,stopped or knocked out,but we have to say that hagler cleverly tucked his chin in and so avoided being hit on the point of the chin....If hearns boxed hagler or didnt break his hands/have wobbly legs the fight would have been very interesting....a rematch would have been great,i think tommy would have taken him as hagler was slipping somewhat....But lets not take away from marvin,i think no fighter in history could have beaten hearns at 160 in the way hagler did that night....
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Old 07-15-2007, 12:19 PM   #72
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Default Re: Hearns - Power...

Excuses, excuses. Hearns wasn't a KO artist at any weight from 160lb up. Period.
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Old 07-15-2007, 12:26 PM   #73
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Default Re: Hearns - Power...

So hagler was wobbled by a non ko artist,roldan knocked out for ten,andries knocked down with one punch etc,etc all by a non ko artist?
Tell me who was a ko artist at 160 and why?
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Old 07-15-2007, 12:33 PM   #74
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Default Re: Hearns - Power...

I'll repeat, who the hell are Roldan and Andries? Are they some kind of underated greats or something?
Nigel Benn stopped Barkley in the 1st round, Hearns stopped him in... err, I forgot, which round did he stop him?
He stopped lotta middleweights and supermiddleweights, guys like Ernie Singletary, Murray Sutherland, Doug DeWitt, James Kinchen, Michael Olajide, they all crumbled by his power.
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Old 07-15-2007, 12:38 PM   #75
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Default Re: Hearns - Power...

Ok. Tell me who are ko artists at middle and why?
By the way,who did roy beat except a green hopkins and toney?Not to mention him getting beat knocked out by the 'all time greats' tarver and johnson...... Are tarver and johnson ko artists at lt heavy?
ps; hearns was hurting barkley vey badly before the stoppage,jones didnt hurt johnson or tarver very much did he?
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