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Old 04-17-2008, 12:54 PM   #16
yancey
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Default Re: Any recollections of Johnny Persol?

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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
Sorry, but this made me laugh.
Yep, same here.
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Old 04-17-2008, 01:34 PM   #17
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Default Re: Any recollections of Johnny Persol?

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Originally Posted by yancey
Jimmy Ellis has not passed away to my knowledge.

He is a very fine gentleman still active in his community, the last I heard.
Sorry, you are right Ellis is still alive, however, he still suffers from dementia (punch drunk). Persol is still mentally cogent and is training fighters out of Newark, N.J.
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Old 04-17-2008, 01:38 PM   #18
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Default Re: Any recollections of Johnny Persol?

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Originally Posted by Woller
Persol is doing very well in fights I have seen against Olson and Hank, but in the second Jimmy Dupree fight he has absolutly no punch resistance. Sad sight, at least he did not fight on.

Woller
Again, thats because Johnny could not see. I believe that was his last fight. But, remember, he TKO'd Jimmy Durpree in their first fight. Again, every fight Persol lost was because of double vision which he has to this day from a detached retina and injury to his orbital bone in a fight with Roger Rouse.
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Old 04-17-2008, 01:39 PM   #19
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Default Re: Any recollections of Johnny Persol?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
Sorry, but this made me laugh.
Why would this make you laugh?
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Old 04-17-2008, 02:02 PM   #20
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Default Re: Any recollections of Johnny Persol?

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Originally Posted by yancey
Yep, same here.
And you, too. Whats so funny?
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Old 04-17-2008, 02:08 PM   #21
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Default Re: Any recollections of Johnny Persol?

You act as if there is no other way he could've lost. It's like when the Toney fans say "Toney only ever lost due to not being motivated enough" and excuses of that nature. And considering the excuse you used was innacurate, as his retinal problems didn't start until after he lost his rematch with Cotton, it's even funnier. Apprently he started having trouble after the Rouse fight, of which he was stopped in the first.
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Old 04-17-2008, 03:37 PM   #22
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Default Re: Any recollections of Johnny Persol?

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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
You act as if there is no other way he could've lost. It's like when the Toney fans say "Toney only ever lost due to not being motivated enough" and excuses of that nature. And considering the excuse you used was innacurate, as his retinal problems didn't start until after he lost his rematch with Cotton, it's even funnier. Apprently he started having trouble after the Rouse fight, of which he was stopped in the first.
Sorry if I created that impression. But, I have first hand knowledge of Johnny Persol's eye injury which started in his bout with Roger Rouse as a fracture to the obital bone that was not diagnosed until years later leading to a detached retina. Johnny Persol would have no excuse for losing because he is a man of outstanding integrity. But, if you would google him and read the article about him being given the title of "Uncrowned Light Heavyweight," you would know the story. This man had 85 amateur fights with no losses. This includes beating future Heavyweight champion, Jimmy Eillis. Even his trainer and manager, Gil Clancey, stated the only fights Johnny Persol lost were the ones that he could not see. Again, Johnny would make no excuse, but the folks around him know what happened with his losses.
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Old 04-17-2008, 04:01 PM   #23
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Default Re: Any recollections of Johnny Persol?

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Originally Posted by gbaby
Sorry if I created that impression. But, I have first hand knowledge of Johnny Persol's eye injury which started in his bout with Roger Rouse as a fracture to the obital bone that was not diagnosed until years later leading to a detached retina. Johnny Persol would have no excuse for losing because he is a man of outstanding integrity. But, if you would google him and read the article about him being given the title of "Uncrowned Light Heavyweight," you would know the story. This man had 85 amateur fights with no losses. This includes beating future Heavyweight champion, Jimmy Eillis. Even his trainer and manager, Gil Clancey, stated the only fights Johnny Persol lost were the ones that he could not see. Again, Johnny would make no excuse, but the folks around him know what happened with his losses.
I've read the same article, and it backs up my statement(as you just did) that his eye problems started in his fight with Rouse, which contradicts your statement below, as he lost prior to that bout.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaby
Every fight Johnny Persol lost was because he could not see because of the detached retina.
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Old 04-17-2008, 06:30 PM   #24
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Default Re: Any recollections of Johnny Persol?

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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
I've read the same article, and it backs up my statement(as you just did) that his eye problems started in his fight with Rouse, which contradicts your statement below, as he lost prior to that bout.
The fight you speak of was with Eddie Cotten, who Johnny Persol has beaten less than a month before that fight. Go back and re-read that article and you will find that Johnny had a bad cold prior to the second Eddie Cotten fight and was advised by his trainer and manager to cancel the second bout with Eddie Cotten, but Johnny refused to do so. Johnny, himself, would not use that as an excuse which is why he fought Eddie Cotten the second time despite the cold. However, in hindsight, I'm sure he knows that the better decision would be for him to cancel that bout due to a cold. I bet you it was a financial decision to continue anyway, because while training, you can't work, and so I guess it was a decision that perhaps he needed that purse to survive.
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Old 04-17-2008, 07:08 PM   #25
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Default Re: Any recollections of Johnny Persol?

And the reason for the Ellis 1st round knockout loss was that there was a unexpected 10 minute delay and he went flat.

Listen, I'm a nice guy and I hate to be rude, but this is getting a tiny bit ridiculous.

Last edited by yancey; 04-17-2008 at 07:44 PM.
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Old 04-17-2008, 07:14 PM   #26
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Default Re: Any recollections of Johnny Persol?

p.s.

I will say that I remember Johnny Persol and he was a fine, artful boxer. I remember his hot streak where he beat heavyweights like Amos Lincoln and James J. Woody, while giving away lots of weight.

But he lost very decisively against a very mobile Jimmy Ellis who was just starting to come on in the pro ranks. Sorry, it is true.

I'm also glad that things turned out well for Mr. Persol and I wish him the best of luck.
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Old 04-17-2008, 09:50 PM   #27
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Default Re: Any recollections of Johnny Persol?

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Originally Posted by yancey
p.s.

I will say that I remember Johnny Persol and he was a fine, artful boxer. I remember his hot streak where he beat heavyweights like Amos Lincoln and James J. Woody, while giving away lots of weight.

But he lost very decisively against a very mobile Jimmy Ellis who was just starting to come on in the pro ranks. Sorry, it is true.

I'm also glad that things turned out well for Mr. Persol and I wish him the best of luck.
I saw that fight with Jimmy Ellis, and my personal opinion is that Ellis was a legitimate heavyweight at that time, and maybe Johnny had no businsess fighting as a heavyweight as his build was that of a true light heavyweight. He certainly moved back down to light heavy after the Ellis fight. By the way, you really are a nice guy.

Last edited by gbaby; 04-17-2008 at 10:45 PM.
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Old 04-18-2008, 05:43 PM   #28
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Default Re: Any recollections of Johnny Persol?

Yancey, I just learned how to conduct a search on this forum, and I saw where you posted about Johnny Persol being blasted by Jimmy Eillis in the Ali-Foley undercard in 1967. Obviously, that fight was quite memorable to you. But, keep in mind, that in 1960, Johnny Persol, as an amatuer, beat Jimmy Ellis for the golden gloves middleweight division when the golden gloves were Chicago vs. New York. I believe Mohammed Ali fought in the light heavyweight or heavyweight division and won his golden gloves at the same time. My point is while, there is no excuse for Johnny Persol loosing to Ellis the second time around, Johnny Persol was a great talent as he beat Jimmy once and Jimmy went on to become the WBA/WBC heavyweight champion of the world. As you decribed in an earlier post, Johnny Persol was an artful fighter. Personally, I liked Persol's style of boxing as it was beautiful to behold.
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Old 04-21-2008, 08:09 PM   #29
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Default Re: Any recollections of Johnny Persol?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaby
Your statement that Johnny Persol "had no chin" is inaccurate. Johnny Persol was one of the greatest light heavies of the '60s whose career ended prematurely due to a detached retina. In fact, recently, Persol was given a belt entitled "The Uncrowned Light Heavyweight Champion." Persol won the golden gloves twice in his amateur career and never lost a fight as such. Early in his pro career he beat several past world champions, and he moved to the heavyweight division because the light heavyweight champion would not give him a title shot. Although a light heavy, Johnny Persol beat numerous heavyweights including Von Clay and Amos "Big Train" Lincoln. He was ranked by Ring Magazine in two divisions at the same time: Number 4 lightheavyweight and number 10 heavyweight. Every fight Johnny Persol lost was because he could not see because of the detached retina. Also, keep in mind that while Jimmy Ellis beat Persol and went on to become the next Heavyweight Champion after Ali was strippped from the title, Johnny Persol beat Jimmy Ellis in his first golden glove title. Johnny Persol was one of the most colorful fighters who mastered every aspect of the game from jabbing, counter punching and overall ring generalship. Had he not suffered a detached retina, he would have been at least a light heavyweight champion as no other figther could match his speed or boxing abilty.
gbaby,

I anjoyed reading your posts in this thread, but with that said I fail to see how you dispproved my contention that Johnny had a weak mandible in any of your posts. Detached retina or not, it doesn`t change the fact that his chin was far from sturdy from what I have seen of him. Mind you, as I stated earlier Persol was such a good boxer and adept defensively that he was rarely ever tagged with a clean shot, but whenever he did you could see his legs buckle beneath him. Henry Hank wobbled him the only two times he landed anything of consequence, and Jimmy Dupree waxed the floor with him in their return after he finally nailed him. I liked Johnny and think he was a mighty fine boxer and a treat to watch, but I stand by what I said in regards to his punch resistance.
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Old 04-21-2008, 08:45 PM   #30
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Default Re: Any recollections of Johnny Persol?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaby
Yancey, I just learned how to conduct a search on this forum, and I saw where you posted about Johnny Persol being blasted by Jimmy Eillis in the Ali-Foley undercard in 1967. Obviously, that fight was quite memorable to you. But, keep in mind, that in 1960, Johnny Persol, as an amatuer, beat Jimmy Ellis for the golden gloves middleweight division when the golden gloves were Chicago vs. New York. I believe Mohammed Ali fought in the light heavyweight or heavyweight division and won his golden gloves at the same time. My point is while, there is no excuse for Johnny Persol loosing to Ellis the second time around, Johnny Persol was a great talent as he beat Jimmy once and Jimmy went on to become the WBA/WBC heavyweight champion of the world. As you decribed in an earlier post, Johnny Persol was an artful fighter. Personally, I liked Persol's style of boxing as it was beautiful to behold.
Totally agree with you that Johnny Persol was a very stylish boxer.

He sure outfoxed those heavies like Woody and Lincoln.

If you ever see Mr. Persol, tell him I sure enjoyed reading about his exploits in Ring Magazine back when I was a young boy in the '60s.
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