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Old 07-13-2007, 05:08 PM   #16
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Default Re: Ali v tyson

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Originally Posted by I Am Legend
I havent given it much thought. The ali of the frazier fights stands a much better chance, but his lack of power cripples his chances. He also doesnt have the dynamite uppercut required to stop tyson.
He doesn't have any uppercut!

Which single fight do you pick as Tyson's peak?
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Old 07-13-2007, 05:08 PM   #17
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Default Re: Ali v tyson

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Originally Posted by Muchmoore
That was an unmotivated Tyson that was in it more for the money than to win. When Tyson was getting destroyed by Douglas he roared back and dropped Buster in the 8th, and had it not been the end of the round probably would of won. A young Tyson kept fighting no matter what you threw at him.
I firmly believe the ear biting in Holy 2 was Tysons idea of quitting with honour without having to get the same beating he got last time.
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Old 07-13-2007, 05:11 PM   #18
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Default Re: Ali v tyson

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Originally Posted by GazOC
I firmly believe the ear biting in Holy 2 was Tysons idea of quitting with honour without having to get the same beating he got last time.
What's your point?
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Old 07-13-2007, 05:14 PM   #19
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Default Re: Ali v tyson

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Originally Posted by GazOC
I firmly believe the ear biting in Holy 2 was Tysons idea of quitting with honour without having to get the same beating he got last time.
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Old 07-13-2007, 05:19 PM   #20
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Default Re: Ali v tyson

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Originally Posted by Muchmoore
The 74-75 Ali didnt have the movement and elusiveness to avoid Tysons blows. If he rope a dopes against Tyson, its over. Tyson was a patient, steady destroyer at his best, not an impatient Foreman who threw every punch full power and gassed out.

I'm talking Frazier II and III era. That Ali doesn't get KO'd by anybody. Look, I'm giving Tyson some slack here, when, if we're honest, if our lives depended on it we'd pick Ali without a second's hesitation.
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Old 07-13-2007, 05:19 PM   #21
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Default Re: Ali v tyson

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Originally Posted by Muchmoore
What's your point?
That at a certain point, Tyson decides a fight is unwinnable a effectively gives up.

Fumbling for mouthpiece against Douglas instead of trying to get up
Ear biting agianst Holy
Looking to get KO'd against Lewis

He showed a similar trait in his last two defeats but I'll cut him some slack....


I think he'd get to that point with Ali.
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Old 07-13-2007, 05:20 PM   #22
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Default Re: Ali v tyson

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Originally Posted by GazOC
I firmly believe the ear biting in Holy 2 was Tysons idea of quitting with honour without having to get the same beating he got last time.

Of course, quit job of the year. I thought everybody knew that.
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Old 07-13-2007, 05:21 PM   #23
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Default Re: Ali v tyson

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Originally Posted by I Am Legend
Berbick. Averaged ~60 punches around, destroyed a peak, game opponent who had gone 15 rounds with a prime larry holmes, displayed incredible speed and power.
Yeah, I agree. There is something other about that fight.

With this guy we just don't know what would happen if he got dragged out of his comfort zone. I know it's a touchy subject for you, but what Bonecrusher did with him always made me wonder.

But all Boncursher came to do was survive - I just think that there are ATG's, master boxers who could play that survival game attacking of the defense.

As we agreed (i think) Tyson in peak was never dragged out of his depth - but the inferior version was - and he consistantly reacted badly.

Bottom line - do you think that some of these great fighters could put Tyson in serious trouble?

And if he did find himself in that trouble, don't you think it's possible he could fail to show his best?
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Old 07-13-2007, 05:25 PM   #24
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Default Re: Ali v tyson

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Originally Posted by I Am Legend
Shot joe frazier had ali in serious trouble in the thrilla, put a prime tyson in place of shot joe frazier in that fight and you'd get a KO/TKO in under 10 rounds.

What serious trouble? Near the end of round 14? Yeah, Tyson would really be able to throw the same amout of leather than Frazier for 14 rounds.
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Old 07-13-2007, 05:31 PM   #25
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Default Re: Ali v tyson

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Originally Posted by McGrain

As we agreed (i think) Tyson in peak was never dragged out of his depth - but the inferior version was - and he consistantly reacted badly.
I guess thats the point I'm trying to make....
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Old 07-13-2007, 10:10 PM   #26
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Default Re: Ali v tyson

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Originally Posted by GazOC
That at a certain point, Tyson decides a fight is unwinnable a effectively gives up.

Fumbling for mouthpiece against Douglas instead of trying to get up
Ear biting agianst Holy
Looking to get KO'd against Lewis

He showed a similar trait in his last two defeats but I'll cut him some slack....


I think he'd get to that point with Ali.
Dude, are you kidding me? Your claiming that Tyson threw the fight with Douglas? Did you even watch what happened? He got smacked with 4 flush shots that almost took his head off -- that's why he was 'fumbling with the mouthpiece.'

And Tyson wasn't 'looking' to get KO'd by Lewis. He gassed out very early into the fight and had no chance of winning after that. Tyson without stamina is like Foreman without power.

As for the ear bite -- who knows why that happened? I don't believe he was trying to 'get out of the fight', as he was actually winning that round. It probably had to do with the headbutting and the fact that Tyson was a pretty unstable guy.
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Old 07-13-2007, 10:39 PM   #27
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Default Re: Ali v tyson

To be honest with everyone, the speed of Tyson's hook is what bothers me for the Ali match up. Tyson's power is up there with the likes of Foreman, Louis, Lewis, Shavers, etc... I'm not here to debate who hit harder. They are all in the same ball park. Ali never faced anyone with Tyson's speed to compliment his power.

Ali's name has begun to bore me on this forum. It seems as if everyone keeps mentioning Ali so much that I want to pick Everett Martin to beat him. People even want to make him into some sci-fi monster, and wonder what would happen if. I sometimes feel like I have wandered onto some comedy scetch where people just keep mentioning Ali to the point that it is funny.

I really have no choice other than picking Ali, but I wish I could do otherwise.

Ali is my favorite fighter ever, but damn. I here Ali's name so much, that it is becoming cliche to pick him against anyone.

I have only been on this forum for 2 months by the way.
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Old 07-13-2007, 10:59 PM   #28
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Default Re: Ali v tyson

Muhammad Ali 12 UD WINS


Mike Tyson is one dimensional you knew what you where going to get with Mike Tyson. Muhammad Ali is not one dimensional, he can fight coming forward, on the back foot, he can totally out move fighters. Muhammad Ali has the best footwork, speed and co-ordination of any heavyweight in history, and his hand speed is immense, and Muhammad Ail had a laser like Jab, all the tools to beat Mike Tyson, but it’s the game plan that needs to be executed. This is a big factor in this fight, Tony Tucker laid the blue print how to beat Mike Tyson. A moving target is harder to hit than a stationary Target, Mike Tyson had big problems with anybody, who could move, take a punch, and execute fast combinations, and this frustrated and confused him. Muhammad Ali would know this, and adopt and stick and move tatics, and who was better, combinations. With fast combinations, this fight will frustrate Mike Tyson. The only chance Mike Tyson has got is a K.O, there is no way he dominates Muhammad Ali round after round, Mike Tyson is one dimensional, and if Tony Tucker, James Quick Tills, can dance and stick and move against Mike Tyson for 12 rounds. Muhammad Ali will tear apart Mike Tyson physical atomy, he will totally Molester Mike Tyson. Muhammad is too big, fast and skillful. Mike Tyson's work rate was nothing out of this world in his prime, Muhammad Ali was overall had more endurance than Mike Tyson. And is not stupid, nothing is getting played into Mike Tyson's hands. It’s Lennox Lewis vs. Mike Tyson 2002 all over again, gorilla warfare. The Muhammad Ali that fought Sonny Listen, and the Muhammad Ali that fought Joe Frasier all three times, totally Molesters Mike Tyson for 12 rounds.

12 UD for Muhammad Ali.
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Old 07-13-2007, 11:28 PM   #29
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Default Re: Ali v tyson

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Originally Posted by MR KOOL
Muhammad Ali 12 UD WINS


Mike Tyson is one dimensional you knew what you where going to get with Mike Tyson. Muhammad Ali is not one dimensional, he can fight coming forward, on the back foot, he can totally out move fighters. Muhammad Ali has the best footwork, speed and co-ordination of any heavyweight in history, and his hand speed is immense, and Muhammad Ail had a laser like Jab, all the tools to beat Mike Tyson, but itís the game plan that needs to be executed. This is a big factor in this fight, Tony Tucker laid the blue print how to beat Mike Tyson. A moving target is harder to hit than a stationary Target, Mike Tyson had big problems with anybody, who could move, take a punch, and execute fast combinations, and this frustrated and confused him. Muhammad Ali would know this, and adopt and stick and move tatics, and who was better, combinations. With fast combinations, this fight will frustrate Mike Tyson. The only chance Mike Tyson has got is a K.O, there is no way he dominates Muhammad Ali round after round, Mike Tyson is one dimensional, and if Tony Tucker, James Quick Tills, can dance and stick and move against Mike Tyson for 12 rounds. Muhammad Ali will tear apart Mike Tyson physical atomy, he will totally Molester Mike Tyson. Muhammad is too big, fast and skillful. Mike Tyson's work rate was nothing out of this world in his prime, Muhammad Ali was overall had more endurance than Mike Tyson. And is not stupid, nothing is getting played into Mike Tyson's hands. Itís Lennox Lewis vs. Mike Tyson 2002 all over again, gorilla warfare. The Muhammad Ali that fought Sonny Listen, and the Muhammad Ali that fought Joe Frasier all three times, totally Molesters Mike Tyson for 12 rounds.

12 UD for Muhammad Ali.
That sure was an enjoyable read. Tyson's power diminishes during the late rounds as well. Ali has the perfect style to offset Tyson. What everyone forgets, Tyson never had the mental strength to match Ali either.
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Old 07-13-2007, 11:36 PM   #30
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Default Re: Ali v tyson

A man versus a boy. Ali is way too tough for Tyson.
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