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Old 09-20-2012, 02:58 AM   #1
Theron
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Default Joe Frazier vs Larry Holmes

I know that Joe and Larry had a sparring session together and Joe cracked one of Larry ribs.... Do you think if they fought around the time when Joe was ending his career and Larry was up and coming up when they sparred that Larry could have beaten him, sorry i don't have an exact date of the time it happened but heard them talking about it.
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Old 09-20-2012, 03:17 AM   #2
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Default Re: Joe Frazier vs Larry Holmes

At the end of Joes career, Joe wouldn't have a chance.
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Old 09-20-2012, 07:18 AM   #3
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Default Re: Joe Frazier vs Larry Holmes

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Originally Posted by Sister Sledge View Post
At the end of Joes career, Joe wouldn't have a chance.

True. After Manilla Joe was ready to be taken by any top contender. Holmes was the best of the younger crop coming up in 1976. As for a prime for prime scenario,I give the edge to Holmes if it's a twelve rounder,but make Joe favourite over fifteen.
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Old 09-20-2012, 07:29 AM   #4
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Default Re: Joe Frazier vs Larry Holmes

I agree, Joe wouldn't have much of a chance against Holmes, at the end of his career. Prime vs prime, that's a different story.
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Old 09-20-2012, 08:23 AM   #5
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Default Re: Joe Frazier vs Larry Holmes

Frazier of '70 is tuff as nails, but Holmes of '78 to 1980 is just too spry and skilled for Joe...... I see J.F. pressing like normal, but getting hit with stinging jabs and several good crosses from Holmes... I like Holmes......

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Old 09-20-2012, 08:30 AM   #6
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Default Re: Joe Frazier vs Larry Holmes

I'd go with the better boxer in Holmes, Frazier pushes him and wins rounds but Holmes lands more and gets hit less
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Old 09-20-2012, 08:36 AM   #7
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Default Re: Joe Frazier vs Larry Holmes

Older Frazier just not quick enough.

Prime for prime I guess Joe.
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Old 09-20-2012, 08:46 AM   #8
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Default Re: Joe Frazier vs Larry Holmes

frazier was gone in the 70's past his ali win, the only good win he had after that where he looked good was the 2nd quarry fight, [his right hand is amazing, all kudos to eddie futch] after that he only got in there with old slow fighters like himself, not taking anything away from foremans win.

as for frazier holmes, holmes style is bad againt a swarmer, more so than ali, because larry loads up with a step forward on his jab, frazier from the 1st ali fight was a monster. i would see a dc from him, holmes from spinks fights, and frazier from manila would kd holmes imo, suseptable to right hands and joe had one at that point, but i could also see larry causing a stoppage.

this is all my own thoughts thought and i would love to see the real fight.
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Old 09-20-2012, 08:47 AM   #9
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Default Re: Joe Frazier vs Larry Holmes

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
I'd go with the better boxer in Holmes, Frazier pushes him and wins rounds but Holmes lands more and gets hit less
how can a big guy like larry who steps towards a smaller guy in joe with every jab get hit less?
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Old 09-20-2012, 10:55 AM   #10
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Default Re: Joe Frazier vs Larry Holmes

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Originally Posted by Theron View Post
I know that Joe and Larry had a sparring session together and Joe cracked one of Larry ribs.... Do you think if they fought around the time when Joe was ending his career and Larry was up and coming up when they sparred that Larry could have beaten him, sorry i don't have an exact date of the time it happened but heard them talking about it.
I believe they sparred around 1971-1973, basically when Holmes was either just getting ready to turn pro or had just started his pro career.

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Originally Posted by luke View Post
frazier was gone in the 70's past his ali win, the only good win he had after that where he looked good was the 2nd quarry fight, [his right hand is amazing, all kudos to eddie futch] after that he only got in there with old slow fighters like himself, not taking anything away from foremans win.

as for frazier holmes, holmes style is bad againt a swarmer, more so than ali, because larry loads up with a step forward on his jab, frazier from the 1st ali fight was a monster. i would see a dc from him, holmes from spinks fights, and frazier from manila would kd holmes imo, suseptable to right hands and joe had one at that point, but i could also see larry causing a stoppage.

this is all my own thoughts thought and i would love to see the real fight.
I know this is repetitive from me, but honestly, I don't understand why people choose Holmes (who had a great chin) to get knocked down by every fighter who displayed a decent right hand at least once in their career. Out of 75 fights, Holmes was down in a whopping 4 of them. Does that really warrant, just because he got sloppy 3 times (twice due to him getting lazy while he was dominating) and was beaten up by a prime ATG while he himself was past prime, that he would be knocked down by everyone who had a good right hand?

If he was as easy to hit with right hands as people on ESB say, he'd have been at the bare minimum dropped by Weaver, Norton, Smith, Witherspoon, Mercer, and McCall.

Regarding the original thread topic....
I think Holmes would beat Joe by a decision, both 12 rounds and 15 rounds. His jab would pose major problems for Joe due to how accurate, fast, and hard it was. Joe was able to by Ali's jab (with difficulties) but at the same time Ali's jab wasn't as hard as Larry's was. The way I look at it is this: Joe was able to beat Ali because Ali wasn't really able to hurt him, but Holmes, being a harder puncher than Ali and having a better variety of punches, would be inflicting more damage upon Joe. Also, Holmes never really had problems with left hooks, even Cooney's left hook wasn't very effective against him.

Joe would be very game and the middle-late rounds would be grueling, but I think Holmes would bust Joe up with his hard jabs and hard right crosses/uppercuts. Ultimately, Holmes would win something like a 7-5 or 8-7/9-6 fight against Joe.
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Old 09-20-2012, 11:20 AM   #11
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Default Re: Joe Frazier vs Larry Holmes

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Originally Posted by Bill1234 View Post
I believe they sparred around 1971-1973, basically when Holmes was either just getting ready to turn pro or had just started his pro career.



I know this is repetitive from me, but honestly, I don't understand why people choose Holmes (who had a great chin) to get knocked down by every fighter who displayed a decent right hand at least once in their career. Out of 75 fights, Holmes was down in a whopping 4 of them. Does that really warrant, just because he got sloppy 3 times (twice due to him getting lazy while he was dominating) and was beaten up by a prime ATG while he himself was past prime, that he would be knocked down by everyone who had a good right hand?

If he was as easy to hit with right hands as people on ESB say, he'd have been at the bare minimum dropped by Weaver, Norton, Smith, Witherspoon, Mercer, and McCall.

Regarding the original thread topic....
I think Holmes would beat Joe by a decision, both 12 rounds and 15 rounds. His jab would pose major problems for Joe due to how accurate, fast, and hard it was. Joe was able to by Ali's jab (with difficulties) but at the same time Ali's jab wasn't as hard as Larry's was. The way I look at it is this: Joe was able to beat Ali because Ali wasn't really able to hurt him, but Holmes, being a harder puncher than Ali and having a better variety of punches, would be inflicting more damage upon Joe. Also, Holmes never really had problems with left hooks, even Cooney's left hook wasn't very effective against him.

Joe would be very game and the middle-late rounds would be grueling, but I think Holmes would bust Joe up with his hard jabs and hard right crosses/uppercuts. Ultimately, Holmes would win something like a 7-5 or 8-7/9-6 fight against Joe.
different jabbs all together, watch holmes jab, watch how he does it, then watch him miss with a jab norton fight, watch how open and easy he is to counter, i see holmes going down, becase ali who was great, and had a better chin got put down, alto holmes fought alot of come to get it sluggers, and come to get it boxers the only swarmers he faced were renaldo snipes and tyson (put holmes down 4 times.)
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Old 09-20-2012, 11:35 AM   #12
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Default Re: Joe Frazier vs Larry Holmes

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Originally Posted by luke View Post
different jabbs all together, watch holmes jab, watch how he does it, then watch him miss with a jab norton fight, watch how open and easy he is to counter, i see holmes going down, becase ali who was great, and had a better chin got put down, alto holmes fought alot of come to get it sluggers, and come to get it boxers the only swarmers he faced were renaldo snipes and tyson (put holmes down 4 times.)
Different jabs altogether, and Holmes's was better. Norton was always nearly impossible to tag with jabs. Watch how Holmes was drilling the elusive Ocasio (who, when past prime, extended both Mercer and Lewis the distance and took Holyfield 11 rounds to dispose) with his jab. Ali, was was indeed great and did indeed have a better chin (not by much though), was decked by a left hook, not a right hand.

Also note that against Shavers and Snipes, Holmes was dominating them and got sloppy. Against Shavers he threw an uppercut from the outside and had his left hand by his side. Shavers, as we all know, stepped in with his ever famous punch, and Holmes was up by the count of 6. Against Snipes, just like against Shavers, Holmes easily was easily winning and got lazy standing infront of Snipes and caught with a right that came out of nowhere. Holmes got up and won the rest of the round.

If Holmes was so easy to counter with the right hand, there's no way he'd have made it threw his career with only being knocked to the canvas in 4 fights. Notice that in his toughest fights, Holmes was not being drilled with right hand after right hand, he wasn't knocked down, and that he was good defensively.

Like I said before, if Holmes was nearly as easy to hit with right hands as a lot of the people on ESB says, he'd have been knocked down a lot more times than he actually was.
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Old 09-20-2012, 12:08 PM   #13
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Default Re: Joe Frazier vs Larry Holmes

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Originally Posted by Bill1234 View Post
Different jabs altogether, and Holmes's was better. Norton was always nearly impossible to tag with jabs. Watch how Holmes was drilling the elusive Ocasio (who, when past prime, extended both Mercer and Lewis the distance and took Holyfield 11 rounds to dispose) with his jab. Ali, was was indeed great and did indeed have a better chin (not by much though), was decked by a left hook, not a right hand.

Also note that against Shavers and Snipes, Holmes was dominating them and got sloppy. Against Shavers he threw an uppercut from the outside and had his left hand by his side. Shavers, as we all know, stepped in with his ever famous punch, and Holmes was up by the count of 6. Against Snipes, just like against Shavers, Holmes easily was easily winning and got lazy standing infront of Snipes and caught with a right that came out of nowhere. Holmes got up and won the rest of the round.

If Holmes was so easy to counter with the right hand, there's no way he'd have made it threw his career with only being knocked to the canvas in 4 fights. Notice that in his toughest fights, Holmes was not being drilled with right hand after right hand, he wasn't knocked down, and that he was good defensively.

Like I said before, if Holmes was nearly as easy to hit with right hands as a lot of the people on ESB says, he'd have been knocked down a lot more times than he actually was.

you think norton was hard to hit with a jab? watch foreman do it, with his slow one, different styles norton would be trouble for any jabber and mover, im not saying holmes is easy to hit with the right, its the only punch you can hit him with effectivly, he stand in an orthadox stance all the time even when hurt he never squares off, so the only punch you can hit him cleanly with is the right.
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Old 09-20-2012, 12:13 PM   #14
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Default Re: Joe Frazier vs Larry Holmes

prime for prime, Frazier can win this, 50\50 fight
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Old 09-20-2012, 12:29 PM   #15
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Default Re: Joe Frazier vs Larry Holmes

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4_VCVI-KIc[/ame]


this is another way to hit norton with a jab, the whole fight is on this guys chan

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YndC5p-ie3s[/ame]


here is another segment of holmes hitting marvis frazier all night with his jab (haha) if it wasnt for frazier clowning we would have a much better idea of how larry would handle his dad, i counted 1 jab from holmes hitting flush, ie not getting blocked or slipped, see how frazier trys to throw the left hand, the only punch he hit larry with on the left was a left straight to the body.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRrvu-PXYzY[/ame]
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