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Old 04-19-2008, 03:23 PM   #1
ChrisPontius
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Default Jersey Joe Walcott vs Sonny Liston

Both boxer-punchers, although Walcott preferred to box more whereas Liston liked to punch.

I think Walcott's chin is more solid than usually given credit for. Most of his stoppages came early in his career and for instance the Simon one may have been stamina related. He went the distance with or beat big punchers such as Murray, Gomez, Ray (2x when in Ray's prime), Louis, Ten Hoff, Layne and of course 13 rounds with a peak Marciano. Liston faced a lot fewer punchers but also got knocked out only once at the end of his career.


What i wonder is how Liston will deal with Walcott's slickness. It is clear that this is Liston's weakness; Machen avoided him all night and Clay made him quit. He was so frustrated against Machen that he got three points deducted. And contrary to Eddie, Walcott has power in both fists; in fact, his sneaky right hand and left hook has put many great fighters on their seats. Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano and Ezzard Charles, to name a few.

On the other hand, if Walcott comes out aggressively, going for the knockout like he did against Marciano, he'd be in big trouble against Liston. He'd do better in using his skill and speed to stay away from the much slower Liston.



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Old 04-19-2008, 03:24 PM   #2
SuzieQ49
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Default Re: Jersey Joe Walcott vs Sonny Liston

Two of my all time favorites, this is going to be a tough one but I will give my opinion


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big punchers such as Murray, Gomez, Ray (2x when in Ray's prime), Louis, Ten Hoff, Layne and of course 13 rounds with a peak Marciano

dont forget hatchetman sheppard 2x, and lorenzo pack. Pack was the mac foster of his era. check his record.
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Old 04-19-2008, 03:27 PM   #3
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Default Re: Jersey Joe Walcott vs Sonny Liston

Liston by KO 10
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Old 04-19-2008, 03:32 PM   #4
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Default Re: Jersey Joe Walcott vs Sonny Liston

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What i wonder is how Liston will deal with Walcott's slickness. It is clear that this is Liston's weakness; Machen avoided him all night and Clay made him quit. He was so frustrated against Machen that he got three points deducted. And contrary to Eddie, Walcott has power in both fists; in fact, his sneaky right hand and left hook has put many great fighters on their seats. Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano and Ezzard Charles, to name a few.

On the other hand, if Walcott comes out aggressively, going for the knockout like he did against Marciano, he'd be in big trouble against Liston. He'd do better in using his skill and speed to stay away from the much slower Liston.
Liston was decisivly over the hill when he fought ali. That said I think Walcott has a live shot here against liston. He proved what he could do to a 6'2 213lb all time puncher with a powerful jab in Louis......But Sonnys 84" reach he will be able to get that jab in their better than louis did despite walcotts terrific head movement.


I see Liston Winning a decision over Walcott. People forget Liston was a very scientific boxer, very polished skills from a technical standpoint for a man of his physical dimensions. When Walcott does his little trick countering in, then gliding out before you know what hit you.....Liston had those long arms to catch walcott retreating back. I think Liston would punish walcott to the body, while I think walcotts triple jab right counters feints and slippery mobility would get liston all tied up in knots. Walcott certainly had the power to do damage to liston and he would, but liston would do more....with his thunderous clubs. Walcott in this fight would fight same style he used against louis, but liston with his long arms would have to chase walcott down like louis did. I like liston by close decision


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Machen avoided him all night and Clay made him quit. He was so frustrated against Machen that he got three points deducted. And contrary to Eddie
And What did that get eddie? 2-3 rounds won out of the 12?
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Old 04-19-2008, 03:34 PM   #5
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Default Re: Jersey Joe Walcott vs Sonny Liston

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
Both boxer-punchers, although Walcott preferred to box more whereas Liston liked to punch.

I think Walcott's chin is more solid than usually given credit for. Most of his stoppages came early in his career and for instance the Simon one may have been stamina related. He went the distance with or beat big punchers such as Murray, Gomez, Ray (2x when in Ray's prime), Louis, Ten Hoff, Layne and of course 13 rounds with a peak Marciano. Liston faced a lot fewer punchers but also got knocked out only once at the end of his career.


What i wonder is how Liston will deal with Walcott's slickness. It is clear that this is Liston's weakness; Machen avoided him all night and Clay made him quit. He was so frustrated against Machen that he got three points deducted. And contrary to Eddie, Walcott has power in both fists; in fact, his sneaky right hand and left hook has put many great fighters on their seats. Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano and Ezzard Charles, to name a few.

On the other hand, if Walcott comes out aggressively, going for the knockout like he did against Marciano, he'd be in big trouble against Liston. He'd do better in using his skill and speed to stay away from the much slower Liston.



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Walcott had very good body movement ,but it was from the waist up his feet turned this way and that ,but he didnt have the overall movement of Machen who boxed on the retreat against Sonny,Jersey Joe had great body feints with his shoulders and hips ,he would make Liston look clumsy and befuddled at times,,and he carried good power in both hands ,but the Liston who cleaned out the division before becoming champ would be pressuring him constantly behind that long jab Liston has the power to ko Walcott but I dont think the reverse is true,Walcott has the edge in skills but not by as much as may be thought.I go for Sonny by late stoppage around the 11th.Walcott had reasonable whiskers but not undentable.
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Old 04-19-2008, 03:40 PM   #6
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Default Re: Jersey Joe Walcott vs Sonny Liston

Walcott has the style to really give Liston trouble, Liston would probably win but its a close fight.
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Old 04-19-2008, 04:08 PM   #7
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Default Re: Jersey Joe Walcott vs Sonny Liston

Liston had a great long jab but Joe louis had a fast and deadly one and Walcott avoided it well with side to side movement and toughness. I cant really see Walcott getting intimadated by Liston because Louis,nor Marciano could scare him. Sonny had the scariest look of all HVYs but Liston did not always look invincable. I like Walcott in this one because of his pinpoint punching power and side to side movement but he would have to box carefully, early on...as the fight progressed I do not see Liston getting stronger but getting fustrated and possibly getting caught with some hard shots (Leotis Martin) or losing a decision but Walcott would have to be carefull from 1-7 because Sonny could club you out of there....Walcott KO 10 or Close UD
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Old 04-19-2008, 06:50 PM   #8
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Default Re: Jersey Joe Walcott vs Sonny Liston

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzieQ49
Liston was decisivly over the hill when he fought ali.
How in the **** is he over the hill 9 months after his greatest victory?
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Old 04-19-2008, 07:00 PM   #9
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Default Re: Jersey Joe Walcott vs Sonny Liston

Good question, Seamus. That is one I've never figured out, either.
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Old 04-19-2008, 07:28 PM   #10
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Default Re: Jersey Joe Walcott vs Sonny Liston

Jeez, both men were tough as nails, but I am a fan of Liston and couldn't see him losing this one. KO win.
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Old 04-19-2008, 07:35 PM   #11
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Default Re: Jersey Joe Walcott vs Sonny Liston

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Originally Posted by Seamus
How in the **** is he over the hill 9 months after his greatest victory?
Liston was past his prime when he fought patterson in 1963, he was softer physically, aging and lack of ring activity(boxed ONLY 4 rounds in the past 3 years!!!) and party life was catching up to him.
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Old 04-19-2008, 07:40 PM   #12
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Default Re: Jersey Joe Walcott vs Sonny Liston

Ok, sure. So he was what- 16 years old- when Marty Marshall beat the shit out of him and 43 years old when the green, confused Clay beat his ass to a pulp. I'm beginning to understand this new logic regarding Chucky. I think we called it Situational Ethics back when I was teaching school.
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Old 04-19-2008, 07:44 PM   #13
SuzieQ49
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Default Re: Jersey Joe Walcott vs Sonny Liston

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So he was what- 16 years old- when Marty Marshall beat the shit out of him

beat the shit out of him? it was a razor thin split decision loss that could have gone either way.......Liston avenged it twice with brutal knockout victory, and a shutout decision win over 10 rounds.



Listons Prime was 1958-1962 IMO, but Sonnys very best was 1958-1960
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Old 04-19-2008, 11:39 PM   #14
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Default Re: Jersey Joe Walcott vs Sonny Liston

Peak Liston wins at ease, this is a silly thread.
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Old 04-20-2008, 12:37 AM   #15
SuzieQ49
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Default Re: Jersey Joe Walcott vs Sonny Liston

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
Peak Liston wins at ease, this is a silly thread.
Your silly if you think that. Walcott made Joe Louis the greatest heavyweight of all time look like a little school girl.
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