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Old 07-15-2007, 06:41 PM   #1
rooq
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Default the problem with british boxers...

Öis the "traditional route". I donít think this works at all Ė it may provide exciting domestic match-ups and is fine for the boxers who will never amount to anything beyond the domestic scene, but in most cases is does not in any way prepare a fighter for a world title.

With the traditional route, the fighter is expected to work his way up the area, english / celtic, british, commonwealth and then european ranks before getting the chance to fight for a world title.

Unfortunately the fighter is kept so busy fighting other boxers from the same domestic niche with more-or-less the same styles that they never get the chance to experience fighting decent opposition from the americas. And like it or not, boxers from the americas dominate world boxing at almost every weight (obviously the HWs and SMWs being two notable exceptions) and have a different style to their european counterparts.

Nicky Cooks disasterous world title match-up is a prime example. He showed a lot of heart but just couldnít live with a boxer who to us looked magnificent, but in the states is regarded as skillful but fringe-world level at best

What we need to do is get our boxers over to the states for at least 3 months a year when they are still prospects and get them working with experienced coaches. get in quality sparring and non-title fights against experienced american / south american journeymen. (Unfortunately the last suggestion would never happen because promoters are terrified of their prospects getting an L)

Obviously not every boxer will be able to benefit from this due to financial reasons, but Iím sure promoters like ****** / Hennessey / Maloney can spare a few quid to make it happen for their top prospects. maybe then we'll have more than 2 boxers at a time who can be remotely considered "world class".
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Old 07-16-2007, 05:45 AM   #2
achillesthegreat
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Default Re: the problem with british boxers...

What you say isn't true. The tradition route does not include area titles. That is just getting extreme. It is like saying you have to win the WBC international title before you go for the WBC title.

If a guy goes the traditional route he is moved along nicely and his competition increases, thus preparing him for the big stage. It would go British fighters, commonwealth fighters, elite europeans and then you would need some sort of eliminator if you were amongst a serious group of fighters.

By this stage you would be fully prepared for the big stage. If you can hack it you can hack it.

Cook had loads of experience, it just wasn't meant to be. Plus, Cook got this shot cause ****** fighters always get WBO shots. Khan could get a WBO shot now, it's ridiculous.
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Old 07-16-2007, 05:55 AM   #3
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Default Re: the problem with british boxers...

Yeah. Cook lost because he was ****ing slow and simply not good enough. He could've had the best prep in the world an still would've lost.
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Old 07-16-2007, 06:03 AM   #4
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Default Re: the problem with british boxers...

The problem with just about every British boxer is they aren't good enough.
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Old 07-16-2007, 06:14 AM   #5
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Default Re: the problem with british boxers...

Quote:
Originally Posted by China_hand_Joe
The problem with just about every British boxer is they aren't good enough.

I think thats a bit unfair to be honest, for such a small nation we have 2 genuine Ring champions, a couple of other world champs and quite a few fighters on the fringes of world class.

We actually produce pretty decent fighters.
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Old 07-16-2007, 06:16 AM   #6
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Default Re: the problem with british boxers...

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Originally Posted by The Exile
I think thats a bit unfair to be honest, for such a small nation we have 2 genuine Ring champions, a couple of other world champs and quite a few fighters on the fringes of world class.

We actually produce pretty decent fighters.
Coming from a small nation isn't an excuse for individuals though.
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Old 07-16-2007, 07:00 AM   #7
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Default Re: the problem with british boxers...

Well, it is. Its the law of average isnt it. If you were to pick 10 boxers from 50 million people, and ten boxers from 500 million people its law of average that the 10 from 500 million will be better.
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Old 07-16-2007, 07:10 AM   #8
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Default Re: the problem with british boxers...

Quote:
Originally Posted by China_hand_Joe
Coming from a small nation isn't an excuse for individuals though.


Its not an excuse for individuals but were not in as bad shape as what some people make out.

Current World Champions - Joe Calzaghe, Ricky Hatton, Junior Witter, Enzo Maccarinelli, Clinton Woods.

Top Contenders/Possible future world Champs - David Haye, Carl Froch, Alex Arthur.

We also have a few to look out for in the next cpl of years eg Khan, Mitchell etc


In my opinion that is not a bad we list of fighters for us Brits despite the fact we do tend to be overcritical of our fighters, myself included.

I have my optimistic head on today

Last edited by The Exile; 07-16-2007 at 07:34 AM.
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Old 07-16-2007, 07:25 AM   #9
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Default Re: the problem with british boxers...

I do like the point about giving our better fighters the chance to go over to Aica to fight and it does happen. On recent American cards young British fighters have fought, some with success and others not so much.

You also have to take into account two big losers of last weekend in Carl Johanneson and Anthony Small. Small has been working in America lately and performed well whilst out there. Carl spent along time in Aica at the start of his career beating an host of opposition untill losing to Koba Gonzaba who is I believe fighting Alex Arthur soon?

The truth is that Nicky Cook had not faced enough quality opposition, the same way Micheal Hunter had'nt when he came unstuck against Molitor.
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Old 07-16-2007, 07:36 AM   #10
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Default Re: the problem with british boxers...

well the traditional route was allright for guys like conteh,stracey,honeyghan,magri and minter.all who were british and european titlists.i think it is a much better way up than this meaningless title route
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Old 07-16-2007, 07:50 AM   #11
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Default Re: the problem with british boxers...

I don'tr think it really matters whether it the traditional route or ******'s 'alternate' route. The problem is, as pointed out by Rooq, that most British fighters do not get enough quality training. Some do, like Hatton, whilst others are so skillful anyway(Calzaghe) they don't need expert tution, but most definately underachieve due to poor coaching. Britain has some good fighters, but Brendan Ingle and Billy Graham apart, has APPALLING trainers. Most are just 'conditioners' and/or 'towel wavers'
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Old 07-16-2007, 08:22 AM   #12
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Default Re: the problem with british boxers...

Its simple the journeymen in the states are of a higher calibre than what is in the uk. So if you want to give a prospect a chance match him up against another quality british boxer or let him fight better journeymen overseas. The problem is promoters dont want there fighters losing to main domestic rivals. Isnt it kind of silly that Hatton and Witter both about the same age, both world champions yet they've never fought. This should have happened years ago but what happens is they fight the dregs of the british boxing scene and then move up to european level or world level and are exposed.

Its no surprise british boxing fans get so excited over fighters when they only see them destroying or battering no hopers for years on end.

When I was young I though Naz was the best boxer in the world and I hadnt even heard of people like Morlaes and Barrerra because they dont get put into that kind of arena until they have a padded record.
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Old 07-16-2007, 08:40 AM   #13
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Default Re: the problem with british boxers...

Yeah, it's a shame that fighters don't want to take a chance and move to America for a few months to further their training. Carl Johannsen did this, but that's only one. Fighters like Mitchell, Murray, Khan, Small, Moore and even the likes of Froch and Arthur should be encouraged to train and fight in America.

It would increase their profile over in the states and give them some valuable experience. The trainers could probably learn a thing or two themselves.
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Old 07-16-2007, 08:49 AM   #14
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Default Re: the problem with british boxers...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NOrth
Well, it is. Its the law of average isnt it. If you were to pick 10 boxers from 50 million people, and ten boxers from 500 million people its law of average that the 10 from 500 million will be better.
Exactly.

If you consider all the good fighters we have in each division we are holding our own. We have players at 200, 175, 168, 160, 147, 140 etc

Plus boxing isn't thriving in this country. It's alive but not thriving. Boxing in America, Russia, Puerto Rico etc is huge
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Old 07-16-2007, 03:33 PM   #15
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Default Re: the problem with british boxers...

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Originally Posted by achillesthegreat
If a guy goes the traditional route he is moved along nicely and his competition increases, thus preparing him for the big stage. It would go British fighters, commonwealth fighters, elite europeans and then you would need some sort of eliminator if you were amongst a serious group of fighters.
but what i'm saying is that moving up the british, commonwealth and then european ranks takes up so much time of a prospects early career they miss out on experiencing american / south american styles, and then the next jump is just too much. they need to get this kind of training / sparring earlier in their career before they become too set in their ways. Even if it means they can't become commonwealth champion two or three years in their career.

there are exceptions like where the europeans dominate the fighters division anyway (smw, hw etc)
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