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Old 04-23-2008, 10:32 PM   #16
RoccoMarciano
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Default Re: Iran Barkley - Underrated?

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Originally Posted by Sister Sledge
He was still a beat at 160 when he lost to Hagler.
Being a so-called beast didn't help him much in that one though.
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Old 04-23-2008, 10:39 PM   #17
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Default Re: Iran Barkley - Underrated?

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Had SRL and Hearns fought at 154, Hearns probably would have won.
Why?
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Old 04-23-2008, 10:55 PM   #18
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Default Re: Iran Barkley - Underrated?

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Originally Posted by Robbi
He was in his prime for effectiveness with power, but not physically or ability wise. I'd probably opt for 154lbs when combining his experience, power, and all round ability.
i agree. he had an amazing left hook to the body later in his career at higher wieghts which wernt as applied at welter. he was a headhunter at welter and used his bread and butter jab-ross to win fights.

at the higher wieghts he had a more refined skills set and more a matured fighter
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Old 04-23-2008, 10:57 PM   #19
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Default Re: Iran Barkley - Underrated?

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Why?
do you feel ray was a good a light middle as hearns.


i think that hearns can carry the wieght well...very well many light middles arnt 6'1 while leoanrd is a welter and is more naturally built for the wieght at welter but not at light middle.
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Old 04-23-2008, 10:59 PM   #20
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Default Re: Iran Barkley - Underrated?

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Originally Posted by RoccoMarciano
Being a so-called beast didn't help him much in that one though.
Well, he was fighting possibly the best Middleweight of all time. There is no shame in losing to Hagler.
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Old 04-23-2008, 11:03 PM   #21
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Default Re: Iran Barkley - Underrated?

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Why?
Hearns gave leonard hell at 147. At 154, Hearns would have be more comfortable and stronger. Hearns seemed more durable at 154 and probably could have lasted longer. If SRL doesn't knock Tommy out, Tommy will always beat Sugar Ray because the Hitman is the superior boxer.
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Old 04-23-2008, 11:11 PM   #22
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Default Re: Iran Barkley - Underrated?

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Originally Posted by Sister Sledge
Hearns gave leonard hell at 147. At 154, Hearns would have be more comfortable and stronger. Hearns seemed more durable at 154 and probably could have lasted longer. If SRL doesn't knock Tommy out, Tommy will always beat Sugar Ray because the Hitman is the superior boxer.
Hearns carried the weight better at super-middleweight and certainly light-heavyweight. If Leonard could trouble Hearns at 168lbs, which he did a couple of times, then surely he would have as much a chance at 154lbs.

I agree, Hearns' resume was much better at the weight in question. But Leonard never had the 'motivational' fights that Hearns did at 154lbs. Kalule, Howard, Norris were hardly pushovers, but not quite the 'superfight' category which Leonard usually shined in. I reckon if it came off in 1982/83 Leonard would have been be a very dangerous proposition.
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Old 04-23-2008, 11:25 PM   #23
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Default Re: Iran Barkley - Underrated?

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Originally Posted by Robbi
Hearns carried the weight better at super-middleweight and certainly light-heavyweight. If Leonard could trouble Hearns at 168lbs, which he did a couple of times, then surely he would have as much a chance at 154lbs.

I agree, Hearns' resume was much better at the weight in question. But Leonard never had the 'motivational' fights that Hearns did at 154lbs. Kalule, Howard, Norris were hardly pushovers, but not quite the 'superfight' category which Leonard usually shined in. I reckon if it came off in 1982/83 Leonard would have been be a very dangerous proposition.
Well, Leonard was great. There is always a chance he could beat anybody. I believe Heans was a better fighter at the higher weights. Heans would have blasted out Howard and Kalule. There is a reason why Leonard did want to fight him again when they were both in their primes.

Leonard didn't fight certain opponents unless he saw certain weaknesses. He thought Hearns was shot before the second fight. That's why he fought him.
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Old 04-23-2008, 11:38 PM   #24
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Default Re: Iran Barkley - Underrated?

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Originally Posted by Sister Sledge
Well, he was fighting possibly the best Middleweight of all time. There is no shame in losing to Hagler.
In all honesty Hearns didn't belong in a boxing ring with Hagler. Hagler was by far a superior fighter.

I suppose the same can be said regarding Hearns and Roberto... although I still think Roberto was very off for that fight.

What this basically boils down to is a search for those that would create a big draw during the 1980s.
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Old 04-23-2008, 11:40 PM   #25
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Default Re: Iran Barkley - Underrated?

Wow, what absolute bullshit.

Hearn's not belonging in the same ring as Hagler?
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Old 04-23-2008, 11:42 PM   #26
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Default Re: Iran Barkley - Underrated?

Poor Barkley, thread turned into another Hearns\Leonard\HAgler affair after about six posts.

The blade was nothing special, but yeah he's underrated for sure.
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Old 04-24-2008, 04:54 AM   #27
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Default Re: Iran Barkley - Underrated?

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49
leonard beat a prime tommy hearns. hagler and barkely beat a above his best weight hearns. Barkley also beat tommy a good 3 years after hagler destroyed him, and 8 years after leonard beat him.
Yes, but Barkley didn't have the talent of Leonard and Hagler, was a massive underdog, and showed real iron man grit to pull it off.

Just because the "wrong" guy one doesn't mean you cant give him some credit.
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Old 04-24-2008, 05:01 AM   #28
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Default Re: Iran Barkley - Underrated?

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Originally Posted by Pat_Lowe
He was responsible for showing us just how good James Toney was. But yeah it was a good win against Hearns the first time. Who up to the point he got KO'ed was looking really impressive. Just got careless. The 2nd fight I don't count too much as most could see Hearns was shot or close to.
That's the kind of NO CREDIT statement I was talking about.
"Good win" sound like giving credit but followed with Hearns "Just got careless".
Then the 2nd fight is completely written off, despite the fact that Barkley was considered over-the-hill too, and Hearns had a recent win over Hill.
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Old 04-24-2008, 05:19 AM   #29
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Default Re: Iran Barkley - Underrated?

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I dont like how he gets almost no credit for beating Tommy Hearns TWICE.

His first win over Hearns was heroic, an all-time classic come-from-behind victory and a brutal KO.

Funny how Sugar Ray Leonard gets applauded for coming from behind to TKO Tommy, and Hagler gets his dues for his desperate brutalizing of Hearns while bleeding from a cut that was threatening to cost him the fight.
Barkley, with his apparent limitations, does something similar and it gets dismissed as "luck", or much is made of Hearns' being "shot".

I dont like how when a supposed "great" fighter does something great it's recognized, but when a supposedly "non-great" does something great - which really amazes us - it quickly gets pushed away and rationalized as something "flukey".

Barkley beat Hearns TWICE. The second fight people forget that Barkley was seen as just as "shot" as Hearns. With the first fight being a "fluke" KO, Barkley wins the second on points over 12 rounds. That OUGHT to be enough to silence some critics, you would think.

Barkley also performed far better than he was supposed to against the much-hyped Michael Nunn, a very talented fighter. Barkley was serious business in the ring.

The Duran fight - a bona fide classic - could arguably have gone his way.
And the Benn fight is a great example of how the 3-knockdown rule can interrupt a competitive fight. I would have loved to have seen a rematch with those two, with no 3-KD rule, and an old school referee.

Barkley was a tough, hard-hitting, strong, serious fighter. A warrior. A serious fight for anyone out there.
Excellent post SJ.

If Duran didn't have much respect for Barkley before the fight, he sure as hell did afterwards. You could literally see Duran's respect growing during the fight.
Iran also broke Hearn's nose in the rematch, en route to a deserved victory.

I think he did very well, considering he was never going to be an established star in boxing. One of my all-time favorite fighters.
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Old 04-24-2008, 09:44 AM   #30
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Default Re: Iran Barkley - Underrated?

The Blade was definately an overachiever. He could beat some great fighters with his fighting spirit, but he would never be great.
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