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Old 07-16-2007, 09:38 AM   #16
jyuza
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Default Re: Shall We Try And Actually Sort Some Top P4P Fighters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manassa
This is my list:

1. Henry Armstrong
2. Harry Greb
3. Ray Robinson
4. Willie Pep
5. Benny Leonard
6. Ezzard Charles
7. Roberto Duran
8. Archie Moore
9. Joe Gans
10. Barney Ross

Of those, I consider Armstrong, Robinson, Leonard, Greb, Charles, Pep and Duran to be unquestionable choices. Anyone disagree?
Definitely not me

I have Benny at 8 though.
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Old 07-16-2007, 09:39 AM   #17
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Default Re: Shall We Try And Actually Sort Some Top P4P Fighters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain

SUGAR RAY ROBINSON
HENRY ARMSTRONG
ROBERTO DURAN
Those three are undisputable for me, it just gets me when people start bringing up Willie Pep like he has some divine right to be top 10, if someone has Pep and not Calzaghe (the superior one weight fighter) they are a complete lunatic
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Old 07-16-2007, 09:42 AM   #18
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Default Re: Shall We Try And Actually Sort Some Top P4P Fighters?

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Originally Posted by China_hand_Joe
if someone has Pep and not Calzaghe (the superior one weight fighter) they are a complete lunatic
Go away.
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Old 07-16-2007, 09:43 AM   #19
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Default Re: Shall We Try And Actually Sort Some Top P4P Fighters?

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Originally Posted by McGrain
Go away.
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Old 07-16-2007, 09:46 AM   #20
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Default Re: Shall We Try And Actually Sort Some Top P4P Fighters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manassa
This is my list:

1. Henry Armstrong
2. Harry Greb
3. Ray Robinson
4. Willie Pep
5. Benny Leonard
6. Ezzard Charles
7. Roberto Duran
8. Archie Moore
9. Joe Gans
10. Barney Ross

Of those, I consider Armstrong, Robinson, Leonard, Greb, Charles, Pep and Duran to be unquestionable choices. Anyone disagree?
You're list is gorgeous. No Langford though? Also, I'd reshuffle your top three but I understand this is just personal taste.

I may be inclined to dispute Charles' position as a lock. Master boxer though he was he only dominated one weight class meaningfully. I know part of this was the war (middle).

I've also heard mutterings here and there that Charles was a fighter involved in business - it is true is it not that all the close decisions he was involved in went his way early doors? Certianly i've heard speculation about both the 1st Burley fight and the Moore battles. That's a house of cards though.

I'm not concinced Benny is a lock either. Care to make a brief case?

Last edited by Asterion; 03-09-2006 at 08:08 PM.
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Old 07-16-2007, 09:53 AM   #21
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Default Re: Shall We Try And Actually Sort Some Top P4P Fighters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jyuza
Definitely not me

I have Benny at 8 though.
But do you really consider your number eight a lock?

Let me provide a quick example. My #8 heavy is Hollyfield. #11 - now outside the top ten - is Foreman. But there really isn't that much between them. It's quite possible that they'll swap places entirely in a years time as I gather new info and see new fights.

But Ali, Louis and Liston who are in my top 3 will probably never be outside my top five. See what I mean?
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Old 07-16-2007, 09:59 AM   #22
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Default Re: Shall We Try And Actually Sort Some Top P4P Fighters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
But do you really consider your number eight a lock?

Let me provide a quick example. My #8 heavy is Hollyfield. #11 - now outside the top ten - is Foreman. But there really isn't that much between them. It's quite possible that they'll swap places entirely in a years time as I gather new info and see new fights.

But Ali, Louis and Liston who are in my top 3 will probably never be outside my top five. See what I mean?
I see your point and I can't argue with you about having Benny outside the top 10. I do believe Leonard deserves to be Top 10, right now I have him 8 but in one month he could be number 10 or number 5 (according to your very good standard).
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Old 07-16-2007, 10:49 AM   #23
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Default Re: Shall We Try And Actually Sort Some Top P4P Fighters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
Of course. A case can also be made for Bernard Hopkins, Charley Burley, Joe Louis etc., we are interested in guys who would be a lock here.

Who would your picks be for an absolute lock? Plus, would you agree that Duran, Sugar Ray Robinson and Armstrong are definites?
I'd love to see the case made for Hopkins being top ten all time.

Heck I'd love to see the case for him being top 30 all time.
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Old 07-16-2007, 10:51 AM   #24
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Default Re: Shall We Try And Actually Sort Some Top P4P Fighters?

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Originally Posted by sweet_scientist
I'd love to see the case made for Hopkins being top ten all time.

Heck I'd love to see the case for him being top 30 all time.
I may have been a little facetious with my selection of fighters; the point is that we are after locks here rather than greats.

I rate Hopkins in some pretty serious company though. And he's not done yet.
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Old 07-16-2007, 10:56 AM   #25
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Default Re: Shall We Try And Actually Sort Some Top P4P Fighters?

Buck Smith, of course
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Old 07-16-2007, 11:01 AM   #26
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Default Re: Shall We Try And Actually Sort Some Top P4P Fighters?

On opposition faced, i am with C_H_J, regarding placing Pep in a top ten, he doesnt deserve to be there...

But if were talking about peoples opinions of him (who saw him in his prime), then that is different altogether
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Old 07-16-2007, 11:18 AM   #27
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Default Re: Shall We Try And Actually Sort Some Top P4P Fighters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
I may have been a little facetious with my selection of fighters; the point is that we are after locks here rather than greats.

I rate Hopkins in some pretty serious company though. And he's not done yet.
Fair enough, I think it's somewhat difficult to have him right at the pinnacle of the sport, but he is no doubt a great fighter.
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Old 07-16-2007, 11:18 AM   #28
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Default Re: Shall We Try And Actually Sort Some Top P4P Fighters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemesis
On opposition faced, i am with C_H_J, regarding placing Pep in a top ten, he doesnt deserve to be there...

But if were talking about peoples opinions of him (who saw him in his prime), then that is different altogether
His skill level was excellent and his style unique, although he still lost a fair number of rounds against some severely outclassed opposition
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Old 07-16-2007, 11:22 AM   #29
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Default Re: Shall We Try And Actually Sort Some Top P4P Fighters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by China_hand_Joe
His skill level was excellent and his style unique, although he still lost a fair number of rounds against some severely outclassed opposition
He was fighting every five minutes, of course he's going to lose some rounds. He wasn't on a two-fights-a-year schedule like Calzaghe, who gets as long as he wants to prepare for a fight.
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Old 07-16-2007, 11:24 AM   #30
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Default Re: Shall We Try And Actually Sort Some Top P4P Fighters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manassa
He was fighting every five minutes, of course he's going to lose some rounds. He wasn't on a two-fights-a-year schedule like Calzaghe, who gets as long as he wants to prepare for a fight.
And sometimes STILL can't be bothered to turn up for the fight.
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