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Old 04-25-2008, 02:43 PM   #1
El Matador
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Default First More Fat, Less Carbs, Than More Carbs?

I had a weird hypothesis concerning the best way to tackle initial bodyfat in a training camp.

I've been recently informed that the body uses several mechanisms of energy and burns them in sucession- first carbs, than proteins, than fats (I think).

If you want to burn fat, than, wouldn't you decrease your carb count at first, and gradually build to more carbs/less fats?
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Old 04-26-2008, 05:27 AM   #2
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Default Re: First More Fat, Less Carbs, Than More Carbs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by murphyx500
You need carbs for energy.
No, you don't.
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Old 04-26-2008, 05:58 AM   #3
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Default Re: First More Fat, Less Carbs, Than More Carbs?

Depends what your body is "programmed" to use!
Long story.
You don't need carbs for energy.
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Old 04-26-2008, 07:24 AM   #4
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Default Re: First More Fat, Less Carbs, Than More Carbs?

nah man it goes carbs, fats then protein! If you want to lose weight then you want to lower the carb intake since this is what you burn first, than after all those empty carbs are burnt you start to burn fats. Following me yet? The protein is the last of our bodies form of energy and people who do such things like marathon runs or boxing(where the activities tend to last for long periods of time) need a heavy protein intake as this is the main source of energy!
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Old 04-26-2008, 09:37 AM   #5
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Default Re: First More Fat, Less Carbs, Than More Carbs?

If you gradually space carbs out of your diet, you use stored fat as energy.

If you have, say, 2 "normal" carb days, like meals with pasta or bread or rice, and the other 5 days you have, really, ANY and all green veg you want, with some toast or something in the morning, and throughout the rest of the day, only protein and fat (paleo / anabolic diet style), after a few weeks you will be using fat for energy. Carb days will make you hyper, and other days you will feel a lot less sluggish than you used to. This is the diet that man used to have.

Sorry, boobsnsn, heavy protein intake isn't for energy at all, it's for muscular recovery and growth.
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Old 04-26-2008, 09:45 AM   #6
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Default Re: First More Fat, Less Carbs, Than More Carbs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSmall
Depends what your body is "programmed" to use!
Long story.
You don't need carbs for energy.

Carbohydrates are the primary source of energy, they are used to my glycogen your muscles main energy.

You need carbs for energy...that's what they are for.

But your body can break down protein etc into glucose for energy..

But then you are using protien for something it is not intended for, Protein is for growth and repair.

If you cut out carbs from your diet..completely..

Your body will enter a caticbolic state..after your body has used "Fat" etc....
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Old 04-26-2008, 11:48 AM   #7
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Default Re: First More Fat, Less Carbs, Than More Carbs?

It uses fat before protein, Kool.
But I agree - you shouldn't cut carbs out completely, it leads to said catabolic state.

"Catabolic."

Not caticbolic!
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Old 04-26-2008, 12:23 PM   #8
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Default Re: First More Fat, Less Carbs, Than More Carbs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSmall
It uses fat before protein, Kool.
But I agree - you shouldn't cut carbs out completely, it leads to said catabolic state.

"Catabolic."

Not caticbolic!
That depends on the persons metabolism. There was a time when i was catabolic and a very hard gainer. No matter what i did i simply couldnt keep mass on and would burn everything i ate within hours. As you get older, your musculature matures and your metabolism slows down thus gaining becomes easier. But all the while it is extremely important to have a healthy dose of carbs and proteins. Most builders you find are on massive carb diets hence the bloated abdominals. But there is no healthy reason at all to cut out carbs in your diet.
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Old 04-26-2008, 12:39 PM   #9
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Default Re: First More Fat, Less Carbs, Than More Carbs?

I stand corrected!

"Stand."
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Old 04-26-2008, 10:25 PM   #10
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Default Re: First More Fat, Less Carbs, Than More Carbs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSmall
If you gradually space carbs out of your diet, you use stored fat as energy.

If you have, say, 2 "normal" carb days, like meals with pasta or bread or rice, and the other 5 days you have, really, ANY and all green veg you want, with some toast or something in the morning, and throughout the rest of the day, only protein and fat (paleo / anabolic diet style), after a few weeks you will be using fat for energy. Carb days will make you hyper, and other days you will feel a lot less sluggish than you used to. This is the diet that man used to have.

Sorry, boobsnsn, heavy protein intake isn't for energy at all, it's for muscular recovery and growth.
if you are on that diet, wouldnt you have to be EXTREMELY precise in the way you undergo it?

for instance if you eat one thing out of line on a non-carb day then you'll basically reset the entire sequence?

it seems if you are going to undergo that it is all based on balance systems and one mishap can flip the entire balance. does that sound right?
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Old 04-27-2008, 04:21 AM   #11
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Default Re: First More Fat, Less Carbs, Than More Carbs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by speero
if you are on that diet, wouldnt you have to be EXTREMELY precise in the way you undergo it?

for instance if you eat one thing out of line on a non-carb day then you'll basically reset the entire sequence?

it seems if you are going to undergo that it is all based on balance systems and one mishap can flip the entire balance. does that sound right?
Oh no, no.
Your just train yoru body to look elsewhere first for energy use, rather than carbs!
If you have some carbs, it will use less carbs and more fat.
If you have a lot carbs, then you use more carbs and less fat.

That's the theory anyway.
I have not tried this diet, but my brother is on something similar, carb cycling.
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Old 04-27-2008, 03:22 PM   #12
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Default Re: First More Fat, Less Carbs, Than More Carbs?

how about a balanced diet its worked well 4 me
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Old 04-27-2008, 11:39 PM   #13
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Default Re: First More Fat, Less Carbs, Than More Carbs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSmall
Oh no, no.
Your just train yoru body to look elsewhere first for energy use, rather than carbs!
If you have some carbs, it will use less carbs and more fat.
If you have a lot carbs, then you use more carbs and less fat.

That's the theory anyway.
I have not tried this diet, but my brother is on something similar, carb cycling.
yea i used to workout a lot after i quit playing soccer with crossfit (crossfit.com, which has an AMAZING amount of things that i believe can really benefit you as a boxing workout, since a lot of it is very difficult and is all full body stuff. another thing is you never do the same workout twice using crossfit), and a lot of those guys are on the paleo diet (no carbs at all).

apparently the paleo diet is very good to do but... shit i like bread too much
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Old 04-28-2008, 07:07 PM   #14
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Default Re: First More Fat, Less Carbs, Than More Carbs?

I'll be damned. There are 5 (maybe 6) people ANY of you should take advice from on this forum when it comes to training; Mr. Small, Virus, the guy whose avatar is him doing the lat spread, Relentless, myself, and possibly El Puma. Most everyone else is talking completely out of their ass.

Now, on to corrections and comments:

Speero: A Paleo diet is not a "no carb diet." A paleo diet allows for both fruits and dairy (both containing carbs.)

Scurlaruntings: The reason for their distended stomachs isn't due to high carbs, it's due to HGH. Many of the internal organs have HGH receptors, which leads to them growing, which in turn, causes the stomach to protrude. Also, the reason for not gaining weight is simply because you didn't eat enough. Granted you were 100% correct when you said there is no healthy reason to go to a no carb diet. It's usually entirely for aesthetics.

Mr. Kool: I do agree, 0 carbs is a terrible idea. However, 20-50 a day is a safe number to stick around, since most anyone can stay in ketosis while still bringing in said amount of carbs. Also, as long as you stay above your maintenance amount of calories for the day, you won't be catabolic.

Mr. Small: The only complaint I have is with the 2 day carb up. I believe it should be much smaller than that, limited to a few meals in a single day at most. This is however my own opinion. When you consume a massive amount of carbs with no restrictions (much like what the AD calls for), you will undoubtedly be set back when returning to ketosis (as in it will take a few days to return.)

Last edited by Marvelous Marcum; 04-28-2008 at 11:24 PM.
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Old 04-29-2008, 07:38 PM   #15
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Default Re: First More Fat, Less Carbs, Than More Carbs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvelous Marcum
I'll be damned. There are 5 (maybe 6) people ANY of you should take advice from on this forum when it comes to training; Mr. Small, Virus, the guy whose avatar is him doing the lat spread, Relentless, myself, and possibly El Puma. Most everyone else is talking completely out of their ass.

Now, on to corrections and comments:

Speero: A Paleo diet is not a "no carb diet." A paleo diet allows for both fruits and dairy (both containing carbs.)

Scurlaruntings: The reason for their distended stomachs isn't due to high carbs, it's due to HGH. Many of the internal organs have HGH receptors, which leads to them growing, which in turn, causes the stomach to protrude. Also, the reason for not gaining weight is simply because you didn't eat enough. Granted you were 100% correct when you said there is no healthy reason to go to a no carb diet. It's usually entirely for aesthetics.

Mr. Kool: I do agree, 0 carbs is a terrible idea. However, 20-50 a day is a safe number to stick around, since most anyone can stay in ketosis while still bringing in said amount of carbs. Also, as long as you stay above your maintenance amount of calories for the day, you won't be catabolic.

Mr. Small: The only complaint I have is with the 2 day carb up. I believe it should be much smaller than that, limited to a few meals in a single day at most. This is however my own opinion. When you consume a massive amount of carbs with no restrictions (much like what the AD calls for), you will undoubtedly be set back when returning to ketosis (as in it will take a few days to return.)
Thank you.
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