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Old 04-26-2008, 05:13 PM   #16
Rebel-INS
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Default Re: Prime Holmes v Prime Tyson

Holmes by late round stoppage.
I just can't see Tyson getting past a prime Holmes jab, which in my opinion is the greatest jab of all time.

Tyson always had a problem with jabbers, even in his prime plus take into account Holmes great chin and decent punching power and I see Holmes stopping him in ten.
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Old 04-26-2008, 05:18 PM   #17
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Default Re: Prime Holmes v Prime Tyson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel-INS
Tyson always had a problem with jabbers, even in his prime
That is what I used to believe, and it's also the furthest thing from the truth. It's a myth that needs to be ended. If there was a single punch that clearly wasn't effective on a prime Tyson(with Rooney in his corner, pre Don King) it was the jab. His defensive awareness and bob and weave made it basically useless. The uppercut was the most effective punch on a prime Tyson, as shown in small doses by Tucker. When he bobbed and weaved his way inside, he often crouched low and stayed in a good spot to have it landed on him. Even then though, his head movement made it harder to land.

That's a reason I don't agree with those who think Liston would've beaten Tyson. Holmes has a better chance with the quickness of his jab and movement, but the jab wouldn't effect him as you think. Overall though, this fight is basically 50/50. I'd give Lewis a slightly better shot.
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Old 04-26-2008, 05:45 PM   #18
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Default Re: Prime Holmes v Prime Tyson

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
That is what I used to believe, and it's also the furthest thing from the truth. It's a myth that needs to be ended. If there was a single punch that clearly wasn't effective on a prime Tyson(with Rooney in his corner, pre Don King) it was the jab.
Sounds like a kid in denial. Tyrell Biggs, Quick Tillis, James Douglas, Tucker ect all found homes for their jabs.

Watch how Tyson strugles with simple movement and a consistant jab from Biggs.
BORKED

Tyson gets frustrated by movement and jabs from Tillis. Its gets to a point where he stands in front of him with his hand up, completely confused at how someone is not only fighting him back, but boxing his ears off as well.
BORKED

Buster Douglas used the jab to control Tyson throughout the fight and keep him at bay. The jab is why Douglas offense was working and how he had so much success. He never abandoned it and stuck with it throughout the entire fight. His jab set up the uppercut and right hand that knocked
Tyson's lights out.

BORKED

If you really think that Tyson wasn't vulnerable to jabs, then you are completely biased(which you have shown by your judgement of Tyson).
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Old 04-26-2008, 05:49 PM   #19
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Default Re: Prime Holmes v Prime Tyson

Pinklon Thomas definitely gave Tyson some trouble with his jab, so did Tyrell Biggs when he used it effectively. Then we have Douglas of course, and Tyson was in his prime when he met him, just not very well prepared. A good jab off-set Tyson's rythm and that was the key to defeating him.
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Old 04-26-2008, 06:23 PM   #20
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Default Re: Prime Holmes v Prime Tyson

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Originally Posted by Wealthy Elite
Slicksouthpaw is a shitty poster.
These Tyson fanatics is laughable. How many of these little things are running around here? Whats shitty is the fact that Tyson has never beaten a great or elite fighter that was in his prime, yet he beats one of the most skillful, toughest and smartest fighter and top 4 heavyweight of all time?
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Old 04-26-2008, 06:32 PM   #21
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Default Re: Prime Holmes v Prime Tyson

Quote:
Originally Posted by slicksouthpaw16
Sounds like a kid in denial. Tyrell Biggs, Quick Tillis, James Douglas, Tucker ect all found homes for their jabs.

Watch how Tyson strugles with simple movement and a consistant jab from Biggs.
BORKED
That's like saying Calzaghe had trouble with punchers and showing his fight with Lacy to prove it. That was a completely dominant performance by Tyson, the ideal one I'd use to show that Tyson didn't have trouble with such fighters(tall, movement, jab, etc). You have to be a troll. That was one of the worst vids I've ever seen trying to prove your point. You've in essence proven mine with that vid.
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Old 04-26-2008, 06:33 PM   #22
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Default Re: Prime Holmes v Prime Tyson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wealthy Elite
What prime elite fighter did holmes beat?

Dumbass. Seriously, you posted a video of tyrell biggs as an example of "frustrating tyson". Tyson toyed with and demolished biggs.
You don't anything about boxing history. What elite fighters did Holmes beat? How about Ken Norton, Tim Witherspoon, Ray Mercer(at age 43) and Mike Weaver, all better than any of the opposition than Tyson has beaten. Plus he scored a few more upsets when he was older and defended his belt over 20 times. Know your history son.

Also, i posted that video as an example of Tyson having problems with jabs. Funny how posters interrupt conversations when they don't even know what their talking about.
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Old 04-26-2008, 06:35 PM   #23
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Default Re: Prime Holmes v Prime Tyson

A Prime Holmes would Jab Tysons head off.
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Old 04-26-2008, 06:35 PM   #24
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Default Re: Prime Holmes v Prime Tyson

Quote:
Originally Posted by slicksouthpaw16
You don't anything about boxing history. What elite fighters did Holmes beat? How about Ken Norton, Tim Witherspoon, Ray Mercer(at age 43) and Mike Weaver, all better than any of the opposition than Tyson has faced. Know your history son.
Why does he need to? When you've shown this entire forum how little you know, repeatedly.

Larry Holmes was obviously better than any of those fighters, Tyson beat him. As was Spinks. Were they past their prime? Perhaps, but Holmes beat Mercer many years later. So how is the Mercer who lost to an older Holmes better than the Holmes who lost to Tyson? Answer that.

This should be good.
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Old 04-26-2008, 06:39 PM   #25
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Default Re: Prime Holmes v Prime Tyson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
That's like saying Calzaghe had trouble with punchers and showing his fight with Lacy to prove it.That was a completely dominant performance by Tyson, the ideal one I'd use to show that Tyson didn't have trouble with such fighters(tall, movement, jab, etc). You have to be a troll. That was one of the worst vids I've ever seen trying to prove your point. You've in essence proven mine with that vid.
Did you even watch the video? All of those fighters clearly troubled Tyson with their jabs and had effect on him as well. You have shown your bias for Tyson in many threads so why am i not suprised. I posted video, point out the parts and explain in detail and you still continue to be close minded. I am not trying to prove you wrong or own you, i'm trying to educate your here kid.

and no, i am not a troll or post spam. I prove my points.
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Old 04-26-2008, 06:40 PM   #26
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Default Re: Prime Holmes v Prime Tyson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wealthy Elite
Ownage.

Well played sweet pea.
The kid is too easy. You figure he'd have left by now, he gets himself into these situations all the time. He'll either find some way to twist around someone's words, outright lie, or just leave and come back a few months later without changing any of his views, but at least the memory of his last ownage will have faded. That's how he rolls.
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Old 04-26-2008, 06:41 PM   #27
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Default Re: Prime Holmes v Prime Tyson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
That's like saying Calzaghe had trouble with punchers and showing his fight with Lacy to prove it. That was a completely dominant performance by Tyson, the ideal one I'd use to show that Tyson didn't have trouble with such fighters(tall, movement, jab, etc). You have to be a troll. That was one of the worst vids I've ever seen trying to prove your point. You've in essence proven mine with that vid.
Tyrell Biggs was a talented boxer, too. Beat both Lewis and Mike in the amateurs. Mad impressive how Tyson systematically dealt with him considering his movement, jab, and determination.

I love the moment where it's evident that Tyson's body assault has completely taken Biggs legs, and Biggs corner shouts '....then stand there and fight him!'

The bout lasted 20 seconds longer.

Holmes' jab would not have been that effective. What threatens Tyson much more is Holmes' ability to survive a pinch -- and make it through to the end.
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Old 04-26-2008, 06:43 PM   #28
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Default Re: Prime Holmes v Prime Tyson

Quote:
Originally Posted by slicksouthpaw16
Did you even watch the video?
I've seen the entire fight you clown, I consider it one of Tyson's best performances, and one that completely disproves fools like you who consider a prime Tyson vulnerable to a jab, height, reach, and movement. Biggs was a very skilled boxer who utilized all of these things and Tyson gave him a beating.
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Old 04-26-2008, 06:45 PM   #29
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Default Re: Prime Holmes v Prime Tyson

Honestly, I favor Mike over a lot of greats that love to go backwards and fight off the back-foot. Give Tyson room to step in and he'll twist and turn on that front foot until you're looking up at the lights.

I favor the tanks to beat Mike -- Foreman, Liston, Lewis.
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Old 04-26-2008, 06:49 PM   #30
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Default Re: Prime Holmes v Prime Tyson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
Why does he need to? When you've shown this entire forum how little you know, repeatedly.

Larry Holmes was obviously better than any of those fighters, Tyson beat him. As was Spinks. Were they past their prime? Perhaps, but Holmes beat Mercer many years later. So how is the Mercer who lost to an older Holmes better than the Holmes who beat Tyson? Answer that.

This should be good.
You show your lack of ability to judge fighters and respect legends in this post. Holmes was clearly past his prime and had been out for two years. How is there any significance for Tyson? He beat a great fighter that was only a shell of his old self and rusty as well. Peak Holmes would have beaten Tyson handidly and Tyson himself even admitted it after the fight.

Everyone with a brain knows Holmes beat Spinks and was robbed, both times. Spinks just held on for dear life and barely fought Holmes. Styles makes fight. According your pathetic logic, Riddock Bowe punches harder and is a better fighter than Tyson because he was able to stop Fuergeson easy in 2 rounds and beat PEAK Evander Holyfield, something that Tyson never did and even lost to old Evander.

Holmes beat Mercer because he has tune ups. Ring Rust can be and was a major factor. I can go through an entire list of names that have looked horrible in their first fight in their comeback. He was actually prepared for Mercer and trained properly.
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