Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > General Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-17-2007, 03:26 AM   #16
errsta
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: []D [] []V[] []D
Posts: 3,167
vCash: 181
Default Re: ** Emanuel Stewart and "Kronk-izing" a boxer"

Kermit is an excellent athlete and I'm happy to see the progress he's making with Steward. He is developing the way I expected Jermain Taylor to.

Cintron is obviously a good student and I hope he continues to progress.
errsta is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 07-17-2007, 04:15 AM   #17
jazzboy
Free Boosie
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: In the Boot
Posts: 333
vCash: 1000
Default Re: ** Emanuel Stewart and "Kronk-izing" a boxer"

i hate emanuelle steward taylor should drop him
jazzboy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2007, 08:46 PM   #18
Orishaman
I tell it like it is....
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Cupey Alto, PR & Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 2,583
vCash: 1000
Default Re: ** Emanuel Stewart and "Kronk-izing" a boxer"

Quote:
Originally Posted by conditioner101
WHOA WHOA WHOA. I am a little sick of hearing about trainers taking and already established fighter and getting him a frew wins and all of the sudden this trainer gets credit for the success. Lets not forget that Kermit was 24-0 with 22 kos with his old team. Lets not forget that he ko-d Elio Ortiz, and Teddy Reid when both were "Ring Magazine" ranked top 10 welterweights. Lets not forget that Kermit was the first man to EVER knock Reid off his feet. Look at the connect percentages of Kermits opponents pre manny steward. He rarely got hit. Look at the connect percentages now... it has nearly doubled. Go look at the Reid fight and then look at any of Kermits fights since being with Manny. Kermits skills have regressed. His hand speed is not as good. Kermit lost to Margarito because he is a basket case mentally, and once personal problems creep back into his life he will suffer another implosion the same way he did against Margarito.
As for the "tough sparring?" Who Andy Lee? Kermit boxed a tall southpaw middleweight to prepare for a short orthodox welterweight? Sounds pretty stupid to me. Now I will give you the role call for who Kemit sparred under his old teams tutelage. When he was 4-0 he went into camp to spar Gatti as gatti prepared for Oscar. After that the list reads like this. Andrew Lewis (when he was champ and undefeated) Kassim Ouma (whom he dropped with single left hook) Bernard Hopkins (24 rounds total) Yusef Mack, Aslanbek Kodzoev (undefeated jr middle/middleweight at that time) Jimmy Lange, Aaron Mitchell, Steve Little, Bobby Heath, Naji Turpin,Tarvis Simms, Ian MacKillop, and Dennis Sharp.
Kermits old team took a 19 year old kid who had never boxed a day in his life and ran him to 24-0 with 22 kos, and did so in 5 years. That to me is what making a fighter is. To start from scratch. That is how it is done.
As a trainer I agree with you to a point, but I also understand my limitiation when hadling talent and how far I can take them, at one point or another, it is in the benefits of the boxers, the guy that you trained from scrath to let him go to the next level, and you can't ...so waht you do you give the keys to the Ferrari to Mario Andretti to so you know he cantake it to the finish line first...and watching the next trainer taking him to the next level is satisfying enough since you know that you had a huge part on his achievement, you laid the solid foundation to built on...
Orishaman is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2007, 09:06 PM   #19
Vantage_West
ヒップホップ·プロデューサー
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 黒人文化の恋人のサンプリ
Posts: 10,027
vCash: 1000
Default Re: ** Emanuel Stewart and "Kronk-izing" a boxer"

Quote:
Originally Posted by rayrayv123
Not too sure on who the last was but you have two very strong possibilities in Johnathon Banks (cruiserweight) and Andy Lee (middleweight).

P.S. Obviously Lee fought as an amatuer in Ireland but didn't turn pro until he came to Detroit to train with Manny.
lee was born in london sorry if he becomes a champion then he is a british fighter...yea us brits are sad when it comes to champions and british identitiy
Vantage_West is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2007, 09:58 PM   #20
iceman
Tis my Island
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: A rebel i came and i'll die the same
Posts: 2,451
vCash: 12406665
Default Re: ** Emanuel Stewart and "Kronk-izing" a boxer"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vantage_West
lee was born in london sorry if he becomes a champion then he is a british fighter...yea us brits are sad when it comes to champions and british identitiy
Sad indeed - Lee is Irish but you can have Mc Guigan the turncoat
iceman is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2007, 10:33 PM   #21
conditioner101
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 756
vCash: 1000
Default Re: ** Emanuel Stewart and "Kronk-izing" a boxer"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orishaman
As a trainer I agree with you to a point, but I also understand my limitiation when hadling talent and how far I can take them, at one point or another, it is in the benefits of the boxers, the guy that you trained from scrath to let him go to the next level, and you can't ...so waht you do you give the keys to the Ferrari to Mario Andretti to so you know he cantake it to the finish line first...and watching the next trainer taking him to the next level is satisfying enough since you know that you had a huge part on his achievement, you laid the solid foundation to built on...
I am not here to make this personal with you. Just to voice my opinion. Your reply didn't address any of the points I made. Not to mention the points I made were facts, not opinion. The Mathysse fight was a good win, but who did Cintron actually beat there? Mathysse doesn't have one recognizeble name on his record outside of Williams, and Williams beat him from pillar to post.
If you look at the records of Teddy Reid and Elio Ortiz you see many many recognizable names, and a world champion or two on there records. On Reids resume you have Terrance Cauthen, Golden Johnson, Joe Hutchinson, Ben Tackie, Andrew Lewis, Rodney Jones, and Verno Phillips. All much more accomplished that the nobodies on Mathysses resume. Elio Ortiz has faced Omar Weiss, Sharmba Mitchell, Ricardo Mayorga, Michelle Piccirillo, Ray Oliveira, and Joachim Alcine. Also all more accomplished than anyone on Mathysses resume. Kermit scarecly lost a round when he was fighting with his old team, and when he faced his first two top ten opponents (Reid n Ortiz) he didn't lose a single round, and produced highlite reel KO's. Can the same be said since He got together with Steward? Estrada came close to dropping him several times, and that was also the first time I saw him genuinely hurt. (don't even include the quit job he pulled against Margarito) His fight with Estrada was very close till the end. Suarez had his moments with Cintron as well.
Physically he is not nearly as imposing as he once was. He weighed 146 for his fight with Mathysse, and entered the ring at only 152. With his old team he routinely entered the ring at 160+. Looking strong and ready for war. I watch his old tapes and no longer see the same handspeed or one punch power.
As for Kauffman... are you saying he is limited as a trainer? Hmmm takes 19 year old kid who never boxed and runs him to 24-0 22 kos in under 5 years both amateur and pro career combined. Son Travis was the US #1 amateur super-heavyweight for two years. He won two national title and placed top three in every national tournament he entered. What I see is a trainer that can take a beginner and turn him into a wolrd class boxer. Doesn't sound to limited to me.
conditioner101 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2007, 10:55 PM   #22
1lehudson
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: boxaville
Posts: 6,399
vCash: 1000
Default Re: ** Emanuel Stewart and "Kronk-izing" a boxer"

Quote:
Originally Posted by drillmatic
thats how the game is played my friend....do you think manny has time to train some little punk that may not even have the goods to make it .....to go to every SINGLE one of his fights? thats not how the process works. you get paid more, you get a better trainer. unless you and your trainer are really close (eg. father/son).

and who the **** is manny supposed to be some god....?

, manny wants to get paid too and with the big fighters theres BIG money. while some punk is trainin wannabee's in the local gym manny is making millions off supreme fighters.
dude I have been around boxing and gyms since i was 5 years old, that is almost 30 years. I dont need some young buck telling me how it works. Truth is KRONK is a gym its not Manny Steward, and with that being said Manny not training someone from 15 to a world title isnt the point, the point is KRONK gym hasnt produced a world champion in a long time. Manny isnt the only trainer in that gym, if he is/was then his fighters arent gettin trained with all the TV dates, and fights that he does, no wonder they have not produced a champ. No there are many trainers there I would guess, it just not kicking out the champs the way that it use to.
1lehudson is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2007, 12:33 AM   #23
tays001
ESB ELITE SQUAD
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: PITTSBURG CA
Posts: 7,527
vCash: 75
Default Re: ** Emanuel Stewart and "Kronk-izing" a boxer"

i can't lie cintron did kinda emind me of hearns with the yellow trunks and the bounce in his steps not saying he 's the next one but he did shadow him a lili saturday night. wlad is doing great with steward and JT is a bum.
tays001 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2007, 12:40 AM   #24
Motor City Sam
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
Posts: 2,054
vCash: 1000
Default Re: ** Emanuel Stewart and "Kronk-izing" a boxer"

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1lehudson
Kronk use to produce fighters, now it seems that Manny is only interested in training fighters that are already champions, or just about ready to fight for a title. Who was the last fighter to actaully start at Kronk and win a world title. there is a good trivia question.




PS....I dont know the answer.
That's a good question. I live in Detroit and I can't think of the last one myself. There have been a few hyped prospects in recent years (Octavio Lara, Tarik Salmaci) but neither of them panned out. Manny has been making his name by taking over guys who were already title holders and being credited with "taking them to the next level" for a while now.
Motor City Sam is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2007, 12:42 AM   #25
Motor City Sam
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
Posts: 2,054
vCash: 1000
Default Re: ** Emanuel Stewart and "Kronk-izing" a boxer"

Quote:
Originally Posted by rayrayv123
Not too sure on who the last was but you have two very strong possibilities in Johnathon Banks (cruiserweight) and Andy Lee (middleweight).

P.S. Obviously Lee fought as an amatuer in Ireland but didn't turn pro until he came to Detroit to train with Manny.
Good call, RayRay. It would be nice to see both Banks and Lee reach the championship level. Lee has looked really good so far and Banks has shown promise.
Motor City Sam is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2007, 01:14 AM   #26
rayrayv123
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 704
vCash: 8540
Default Re: ** Emanuel Stewart and "Kronk-izing" a boxer"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vantage_West
lee was born in london sorry if he becomes a champion then he is a british fighter...yea us brits are sad when it comes to champions and british identitiy

I said he fought in Ireland...I didn'y say he was born there.
rayrayv123 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2007, 01:15 AM   #27
rayrayv123
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 704
vCash: 8540
Default Re: ** Emanuel Stewart and "Kronk-izing" a boxer"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Motor City Sam
Good call, RayRay. It would be nice to see both Banks and Lee reach the championship level. Lee has looked really good so far and Banks has shown promise.
I know I'm biased based on living here...but I know we're both pulling for the hometown guys.How badass would it be if down the road we get title fights at the Palace?!!!
rayrayv123 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2007, 08:16 AM   #28
Motor City Sam
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
Posts: 2,054
vCash: 1000
Default Re: ** Emanuel Stewart and "Kronk-izing" a boxer"

Quote:
Originally Posted by rayrayv123
I know I'm biased based on living here...but I know we're both pulling for the hometown guys.How badass would it be if down the road we get title fights at the Palace?!!!
The Palace, Joe Louis Arena, Cobo Arena, anyplace in the area would be good with me. I had hoped that the arrival of casinos in Detroit would lead to bigger boxing shows in town, but it hasn't worked out that way.

If Lee and/or Banks really take off, maybe Manny can use some of his pull to get them some big fights here.
Motor City Sam is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2007, 10:47 AM   #29
Orishaman
I tell it like it is....
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Cupey Alto, PR & Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 2,583
vCash: 1000
Default Re: ** Emanuel Stewart and "Kronk-izing" a boxer"

Quote:
Originally Posted by conditioner101
I am not here to make this personal with you. Just to voice my opinion. Your reply didn't address any of the points I made. Not to mention the points I made were facts, not opinion. The Mathysse fight was a good win, but who did Cintron actually beat there? Mathysse doesn't have one recognizeble name on his record outside of Williams, and Williams beat him from pillar to post.
If you look at the records of Teddy Reid and Elio Ortiz you see many many recognizable names, and a world champion or two on there records. On Reids resume you have Terrance Cauthen, Golden Johnson, Joe Hutchinson, Ben Tackie, Andrew Lewis, Rodney Jones, and Verno Phillips. All much more accomplished that the nobodies on Mathysses resume. Elio Ortiz has faced Omar Weiss, Sharmba Mitchell, Ricardo Mayorga, Michelle Piccirillo, Ray Oliveira, and Joachim Alcine. Also all more accomplished than anyone on Mathysses resume. Kermit scarecly lost a round when he was fighting with his old team, and when he faced his first two top ten opponents (Reid n Ortiz) he didn't lose a single round, and produced highlite reel KO's. Can the same be said since He got together with Steward? Estrada came close to dropping him several times, and that was also the first time I saw him genuinely hurt. (don't even include the quit job he pulled against Margarito) His fight with Estrada was very close till the end. Suarez had his moments with Cintron as well.
Physically he is not nearly as imposing as he once was. He weighed 146 for his fight with Mathysse, and entered the ring at only 152. With his old team he routinely entered the ring at 160+. Looking strong and ready for war. I watch his old tapes and no longer see the same handspeed or one punch power.
As for Kauffman... are you saying he is limited as a trainer? Hmmm takes 19 year old kid who never boxed and runs him to 24-0 22 kos in under 5 years both amateur and pro career combined. Son Travis was the US #1 amateur super-heavyweight for two years. He won two national title and placed top three in every national tournament he entered. What I see is a trainer that can take a beginner and turn him into a wolrd class boxer. Doesn't sound to limited to me.
You don't have to revisit Kermit Cintron's resume for me, I been following his career since the beginning , so anything that you may want to say about him, I already know…Sure they did a greet job with a guy that was a College level Wrestler, with mayor strength, mobility and understanding of contact sports and very competitive, slimmed him down to a good boxing weight, showing very good technical knowledge on how maximize the assets of a potential boxer to be….Kermit was not a chump that walk in from the street, he was a basified wrestler and athlete…..Now no doubt that Kauffman had great credential in the amateurs and very good resume, but that is Amateur and sure his team did a great job with Kermit, plus the period after the Margo fight and after we don’t know what was happening between Kermit and his people…in all honesty…I don’t know the details on how and why Emanuel was brought in, but obviously the manager of Kermit taught he needed to be settle and move forward after the Margo debacle, and one thing that Emanuel brings to the table is immediate credibility as a proven PROFESSIONAL trainer….Kauffman did as good a he could as I mention , and after the Margo lost…well Kermit was damage goods, and I don’t know if Kauffman had the ability to pick him up, infuse confidence and move forward….regardless how good Kauffman was as a basified Amateur trainer and professional trainer for Kermit, he is no Emanuel Stewart, I am talking about the aura of Stewart and Kronk, which start healing the psychic of any boxer…and that was the first order of work to be done with Kermit after the Margo fight…his psychic…..and as a trainer, I am telling you can deal with the technical issues and skills but what Kermit needed was confidence, rebuilding a boxer from the ground up after a catastrophic defeat like the Margo one, is not easy...
Orishaman is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2007, 11:40 AM   #30
rayrayv123
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 704
vCash: 8540
Default Re: ** Emanuel Stewart and "Kronk-izing" a boxer"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Motor City Sam
The Palace, Joe Louis Arena, Cobo Arena, anyplace in the area would be good with me. I had hoped that the arrival of casinos in Detroit would lead to bigger boxing shows in town, but it hasn't worked out that way.

If Lee and/or Banks really take off, maybe Manny can use some of his pull to get them some big fights here.

You and I could only hope sir.
rayrayv123 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > General Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013