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Old 06-19-2007, 03:43 PM   #1
RonnieHornschuh
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Default Heavyweights punching power then and now

it is often said that shavers, foreman and marciano are the most powerful punchers in boxing history, even more powerful than today's superheavyweights. i highly doubt that, shavers (6'0) and foreman were below 210 lbs, marciano (5'10) only at 185 pounds. with all the modern training techniques, more size and 240+ pounds today's heavy hitters must really do something wrong if they can't at least hit as hard as those three. my assumption is that if they measured the psi of let's say wlad klitschko, brewster, sam peter they would at least hit as hard as foreman and co., maybe harder. (klitschko is more a specialist for straights hands though). share your opinion please!!!
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Old 06-19-2007, 04:10 PM   #2
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Default Re: Heavyweights punching power then and now

It is all physics, which includes a lot of intangibles such as pivot, speed, weight mass (overall body and bone density), and contact area etc. that determine the power. For example, if Peter at 250 with higher bone dencity and Marciano at 185 with lower bone dencity would punch with the same fist size(contact area), speed and pivot, the impact by Peter would be much higher.

Last edited by Shpion; 06-19-2007 at 04:34 PM.
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Old 06-19-2007, 04:25 PM   #3
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Default Re: Heavyweights punching power then and now

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shpion
It is all physics, which includes a lot of intangibles such as pivot, speed, weight mass (overall body and bone density), and contact area etc. that determine the power. For example, if Peter at 250 with higher bone dencity and Marciano at 185 with lower bone dencity would punch with the same wrist size(contact area), speed and pivot, the impact by Peter would be much higher.
Bone Density? wrong. the inertia of the object throwing the punch would have a far greater effect on pressure. Theoretically, a smaller fist (not wrist) (smaller fist because the force is condensed to a smaller are) from a heavier man) thrown with high speed would be the hardest punch. THe difference in bone density and I guess hardness (i'm not really sure what your arguement is there) would be negligible.
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Old 06-19-2007, 04:30 PM   #4
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Default Re: Heavyweights punching power then and now

Of recent heavyweights, I would say the pure force of a full on Lewis or Wlad overhand right is probably about as hard as anyone could hit. But Lewis and Wlad usually didn't throw their hardest punches even when going for the kill, unlike Foreman, Shavers, Tyson who frequently threw nearly as had as they could
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Old 06-19-2007, 04:32 PM   #5
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Default Re: Heavyweights punching power then and now

Valuev must hit the hardest, he's the biggest.
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Old 06-19-2007, 04:33 PM   #6
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Default Re: Heavyweights punching power then and now

It's all relative. the guys they were fighting are not comparable to the guys today. imagine a rocky or foreman with todays advances in nutrition, training techniques, equipment, etc. if klit or tyson did a quantum leap though, theyd probably literally kill some of the old timers i think.
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Old 06-19-2007, 04:36 PM   #7
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Default Re: Heavyweights punching power then and now

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeboxer
Bone Density? wrong. the inertia of the object throwing the punch would have a far greater effect on pressure. Theoretically, a smaller fist (not wrist) (smaller fist because the force is condensed to a smaller are) from a heavier man) thrown with high speed would be the hardest punch. THe difference in bone density and I guess hardness (i'm not really sure what your arguement is there) would be negligible.
I was referring to bone mass. I guess it can fall under overall weight though. I also edited from wrist to fist.
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Old 06-19-2007, 04:38 PM   #8
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Default Re: Heavyweights punching power then and now

Quote:
Originally Posted by macp
It's all relative. the guys they were fighting are not comparable to the guys today. imagine a rocky or foreman with todays advances in nutrition, training techniques, equipment, etc. if klit or tyson did a quantum leap though, theyd probably literally kill some of the old timers i think.
man, I could swear Blocky has said this very same stuff before. Must be Deja vu or something. heh
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Old 06-19-2007, 04:40 PM   #9
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Default Re: Heavyweights punching power then and now

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthmage
man, I could swear Blocky has said this very same stuff before. Must be Deja vu or something. heh
Then this blocky must be a smart guy! lol. no, seriously, i just relate it to other sports like hockey or baseball. pitchers never threw 100 mph in the 50's. imagine bonds facing a constant 70 mph fastball?
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Old 06-19-2007, 04:41 PM   #10
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Default Re: Heavyweights punching power then and now

More to punch than weight

Naseem Hamed was said to hit as hard as a top middleweight despite weighing 126lbs (starting at 115lbs)

140lb Kostya Tyszu is much stronger than 230lb John Ruiz in gym lifts and is also said to hit like a middleweight

175lb Roy Jones Jr stunned Ruiz - something Evander Holyfield did not manage

Tyson at 210lbs was known to have a more lethal KO punch than any 250lb fighter around in his time

210lb Foreman was still perhaps the biggest puncher of the 90s despite been very old

210lb Tua (could have weighed 200lbs or less and been as strong) hit harder than anyone today
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Old 06-19-2007, 05:57 PM   #11
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Default Re: Heavyweights punching power then and now

i hit really hard too, and I dont weight 250 lbs
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Old 06-19-2007, 06:04 PM   #12
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Default Re: Heavyweights punching power then and now

i feel wieght is overated....do you think julian jackson could hit harde rthan shavers...and for some reason i totally feel jacksons punches were by far harder.
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Old 06-19-2007, 06:06 PM   #13
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Default Re: Heavyweights punching power then and now

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuncher
More to punch than weight

Naseem Hamed was said to hit as hard as a top middleweight despite weighing 126lbs (starting at 115lbs)

140lb Kostya Tyszu is much stronger than 230lb John Ruiz in gym lifts and is also said to hit like a middleweight

175lb Roy Jones Jr stunned Ruiz - something Evander Holyfield did not manage

Tyson at 210lbs was known to have a more lethal KO punch than any 250lb fighter around in his time

210lb Foreman was still perhaps the biggest puncher of the 90s despite been very old

210lb Tua (could have weighed 200lbs or less and been as strong) hit harder than anyone today
Foreman 210 lb ? are you sure ?
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Old 06-19-2007, 06:17 PM   #14
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Default Re: Heavyweights punching power then and now

It's all about avoiding diminishing results- finding that perfect weight that allows you to keep the right amount of bulk while being able to throw at optimum speed, and, in a fighter like Rocky's case who KO'd many a fighter late, be in good enough condition to continue throwing with that velocity throughout the course of a fight. That last bit wasn't something that Shavers or Foreman really worried about or showed they could do, as their modus operandi was to bomb the other guy out ASAP.

Also, being too big can have an adverse effect on technique because the fighter generally won't be able to have the same kind of leverage and flexibility. That's why bigger fighters who still have great power (think Foreman and to an extent, Butterbean) are clubbers who rely on brute strength and a little technique instead of precision KO artists who'd rely on modest (relatively speaking) brute strength and great technique and speed to get the punch there in the first place.

Edit: For example, I weigh 250 and have decent handspeed and hit hard, but I wouldn't be able to wind up and hit alot of smaller guys using good technique to land that spectacular pinpoint KO shot hitting as hard as I could- unless the other guys asleep or out of it, it takes too long for that punch to land where I want it to.

Last edited by Rock0052; 06-19-2007 at 06:21 PM.
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Old 06-19-2007, 06:52 PM   #15
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Default Re: Heavyweights punching power then and now

There's got to be a "punchmeter",if you will, to start measuring punching power,instead of Shaver's and Marciano B.S. Foreman probably punches as hard as Wlad, who I regard as a "monster puncher" right now.Tyson and Ike,Tua were also very powerful.
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