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Old 06-20-2007, 01:51 AM   #31
Flatlander
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Default Re: Heavyweights punching power then and now

Many fighters have stood up to an overhand right thrown and connected by many of today's superheavies. No one stood up to an overhand right thrown and connected by "The Acorn" Earnie Shavers.

Most of today's heavyweights are pure bull shit as fighters and would not last 12 rounds let alone 15 with the fighters of the 60s, 70s, . Fighters like Shavers, Foreman, Lyle, Liston would all KO most of the top 50 of the fighters in the 80s, 90s and today.

Last edited by Flatlander; 06-20-2007 at 01:59 AM.
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Old 06-20-2007, 07:47 AM   #32
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Default Re: Heavyweights punching power then and now

Quote:
Originally Posted by codeman99998
It is irrelevant, and I don't follow baseball but how can you possibly have little doubt that two pitchers from THAT long ago threw in triple digits? I mean, have you ever SEEN them pitch?

Also, if most guys were throwing 60-70mph back then, wouldn't a 90mph pitch seem like a BULLET compared? Isn't a 100mph pitch like, tough for most modern pitchers to throw?
Ok, look at track and field athletes. the 100m sprint back in the 50's had a world record of over 10 seconds, probably closer to 11 seconds. today, the women run that. i obviously dont have the stats at hand, but all physical records are leaps and bounds above what they were even 20 years ago. hockey players are skating faster and shooting harder, runningbacks are quicker, golfers are hitting longer drives...why is it so hard to imagine a boxer can get better in time?
its simple that all athletes today are bigger, stronger, and faster than athletes from yesteryear, and boxers are no exception.
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Old 06-20-2007, 08:10 AM   #33
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Default Re: Heavyweights punching power then and now

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Originally Posted by macp
It's all relative. the guys they were fighting are not comparable to the guys today. imagine a rocky or foreman with todays advances in nutrition, training techniques, equipment, etc.

What training techniques are there that exsist to day that have been proven to be useful that weren't around in Foreman's day, or, for that matter, Rocky's? I would agree that there have been advances in nutrition but I honestly don't think it affects the heavyweights, at all. The learning in nutrition is all concerned with keeping guys boiling down to lesser weights healthy and strong through proper diet.

Marciano new as well as Peter that you must eat plenty of protein, lots of food, plenty of veg etc. to stay strong, healthy and to traing properly.

I don't see how advance isn nutrition, training techniques of equipment make a blind bit of difference to heavyweight fighters.
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Old 06-20-2007, 08:16 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by macp
Ok, look at track and field athletes. the 100m sprint back in the 50's had a world record of over 10 seconds, probably closer to 11 seconds. today, the women run that. i obviously dont have the stats at hand, but all physical records are leaps and bounds above what they were even 20 years ago. hockey players are skating faster and shooting harder, runningbacks are quicker, golfers are hitting longer drives...why is it so hard to imagine a boxer can get better in time?
its simple that all athletes today are bigger, stronger, and faster than athletes from yesteryear, and boxers are no exception.

What you say about sprinters is quite true. However boxing IS a little different. First of all it's about absolutes and intabgibles. To run the fastest you nead to train to run the fastest, that is that. It's not the same in boxing because nobody has a clue about what will happen in the ring. Athletics was partaken mainly by amatuers who were involved for the fun and sometimes the glory - nobody was going to get killed. With boxing it was different. You could be killed in the ring. If you stank the place out and turned in a pitiful performance that promoter may never use you again. It would cost you money.

So people in boxing, from as soon as they were boxing, were training just as hard as the possibly could to win. What I am saying is the SPORT of athletics has evolved in a way boxing has not. No atheletes train harder than boxers and that is the way it has always been - they have always been looking for that edge outside of the ring.
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Old 06-20-2007, 08:55 AM   #35
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Default Re: Heavyweights punching power then and now

The myth that the fighters of the 90's hit harder is B.S. Foreman was knocked

down 4 times by fighters from the 70's but not one time by the bigger

stronger fighters of the 90's. Let's not forget Foreman was fat and old

and much easier to hit in the 90's yet not one fighter from the 90's put him

on his ass.

Smaller heavyweights such as Shavers, Weaver, Norton, and Snipes in the 70's did a lot more damage to

Holmes then Mercer or McCall in the 90's. The same Mercer and McCall that gave Lewis all he could handle

Last edited by quintonjacksonfan; 06-20-2007 at 09:05 AM.
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Old 06-20-2007, 09:12 AM   #36
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Default Re: Heavyweights punching power then and now

you can't say ali and especially young were huge punchers. foreman never went down in the 90s because he didn't overpace himself and wasn't hit with enough accuracy and was 40 pounds heavier. he almost was beaten down by stewart, he would probably have gotten beaten down by lewis.
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Old 06-20-2007, 09:15 AM   #37
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Default Re: Heavyweights punching power then and now

That's my point Stewart landed so many punches and he still could not get Foreman out. Lyle

had Foreman in big trouble with one punch in the first round . If a fighter from the 70's

landed the 15 punch combination like Holyfield did in the 7th round of their fight Foreman

would of been knocked out

I don't care if he paced himself when your that out of shape you get tired fast. If the Foreman of the 90's fought in

the 70's he would of been knocked out on more then one occassion

Last edited by quintonjacksonfan; 06-20-2007 at 09:20 AM.
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Old 06-20-2007, 09:27 AM   #38
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Default Re: Heavyweights punching power then and now

all im going to say with punching power is some guys have and some guys dont.

i think it is just something you get blessed with personally it has nothing to do with technique or timing but is just one of those things.

like say Haerns,Tszyu,Foreman,Hamed,Pacquiao,Tyson,Gunboat Smith those guys just are born with it.

its like baseballers are born with having quick batspeed and some pitchers are born with having a super fastball.

i say though that there is no way that Klitschko or Maskeav or any of those guys even Lennox Lewis hit harder than Foreman.
there KO's would come from timing not so much brutal power like George had.
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Old 06-20-2007, 09:43 AM   #39
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Default Re: Heavyweights punching power then and now

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i feel wieght is overated....do you think julian jackson could hit harde rthan shavers...and for some reason i totally feel jacksons punches were by far harder.

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Old 06-20-2007, 09:52 AM   #40
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Default Re: Heavyweights punching power then and now

If the guy couldnt KO 80 kg man, how can we compare him with Tua or Tyson? It is impossible.
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Old 06-20-2007, 10:07 AM   #41
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Default Re: Heavyweights punching power then and now

Quote:
Originally Posted by codeman99998
It is irrelevant, and I don't follow baseball but how can you possibly have little doubt that two pitchers from THAT long ago threw in triple digits? I mean, have you ever SEEN them pitch?

Also, if most guys were throwing 60-70mph back then, wouldn't a 90mph pitch seem like a BULLET compared? Isn't a 100mph pitch like, tough for most modern pitchers to throw?

In 1950 Bob Feller, of the Cleveland Indians, was clocked at 100 MPH. In 1941 Lefty Grove was said to have thrown 99 to 101 MPH consistantly. In the 80's Nolan Ryan waa clocked at 104 MPH.
There was also a relief pitcher for the Yankees, Ryne Duran, who constantly threw 98 to 100MPH and all he had was that fast ball. He was the best relief pitcher in the game then and the reason he was so effective with only a fast ball is he was 90 percent blind. He didn't know who was at bat until the announcer called out his name. He led the league with hit batters and they were petrified of him. His era in 1953 was .080.
There were guys in the past that threw as hard as they do today.
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Old 06-20-2007, 10:52 AM   #42
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Default Re: Heavyweights punching power then and now

Quote:
Originally Posted by quintonjacksonfan
The myth that the fighters of the 90's hit harder is B.S. Foreman was knocked

down 4 times by fighters from the 70's but not one time by the bigger

stronger fighters of the 90's. Let's not forget Foreman was fat and old

and much easier to hit in the 90's yet not one fighter from the 90's put him

on his ass.

Smaller heavyweights such as Shavers, Weaver, Norton, and Snipes in the 70's did a lot more damage to

Holmes then Mercer or McCall in the 90's. The same Mercer and McCall that gave Lewis all he could handle
Foreman was never hit by Lennox Lewis or either Klitschko. In fact, the guys he fought in the 90s were about the same size as the ones he fought back in the day. He said Cooney hit him every bit as hard as Lyle or Frazier and he was starting to get nervous until Cooney froze long enough for Big George to konk him. Morrison is the other big puncher that Foreman faced, problem is again, Morrison had a big punch like Shavers and Lyle but he was about the same size as them and Morrison wisely didn't sit down on any of his punches thrown vs Big George chosing to wisely box and stay out of George's way. I think if Lewis had hit George everybody would have seen the difference. Instead we end up using Holyfield, Moorer, Shulz as the measuring stick of the time. Holy and Moorer were pretty good punchers but not comparable to Lewis or the Klitschkos, Shulz would be doing good to cook eggs for breakfast.


As for Valuev, he seldom sat down on his punches. Most of them were arm punches. If he would have thrown with full power he would have gassed after four rounds but he was smart enough to use his huge stature to wear his opponents down for the most part instead of wearing himself out.
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Old 06-20-2007, 11:24 AM   #43
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Default Re: Heavyweights punching power then and now

Quote:
Originally Posted by Butch Coolidge
Foreman was never hit by Lennox Lewis or either Klitschko. In fact, the guys he fought in the 90s were about the same size as the ones he fought back in the day. He said Cooney hit him every bit as hard as Lyle or Frazier and he was starting to get nervous until Cooney froze long enough for Big George to konk him. Morrison is the other big puncher that Foreman faced, problem is again, Morrison had a big punch like Shavers and Lyle but he was about the same size as them and Morrison wisely didn't sit down on any of his punches thrown vs Big George chosing to wisely box and stay out of George's way. I think if Lewis had hit George everybody would have seen the difference. Instead we end up using Holyfield, Moorer, Shulz as the measuring stick of the time. Holy and Moorer were pretty good punchers but not comparable to Lewis or the Klitschkos, Shulz would be doing good to cook eggs for breakfast.
Shannon Briggs and Alex Stewart - along with Tommy Morrison - were probably the hardest punchers Foreman fought in the 90s. They hit hard, but maybe they boxed safely against Foreman. But maybe Lewis would have boxed safely against Foreman. So we will never know.

I dont see any evidence to believe the Klitschkos and Lewis hit any harder than Foreman and Shavers. They all hit hard.
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Old 06-20-2007, 11:50 AM   #44
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Default Re: Heavyweights punching power then and now

Quote:
Originally Posted by Butch Coolidge
All things being equal a big man hits harder than a smaller man. Our resident physicists have established that. But there's a huge difference between a hard punch and an effective punch. Accuracy has a lot to do with a punch being effective. Bang on a guys short ribs and it takes a few rounds to get the kind of effect you want. Crack him in the liver or solar plexus and good night Irene. Pop him hard square in the forehead and piss him off. Pop him in the temple and he's doing the Ottke vs Mundine reverse swan dive. That's why the punch you don't see coming is the one that flattens you.
That a whole different thing, has nothing to with what you said. If you see the punch coming your brain subconsciously prepares for the impact in a split second and is therefore able to handle it better. If you don't see the punch coming it can't do that and that's why those punches have more effect.
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Old 06-20-2007, 12:12 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by NBT
That a whole different thing, has nothing to with what you said. If you see the punch coming your brain subconsciously prepares for the impact in a split second and is therefore able to handle it better. If you don't see the punch coming it can't do that and that's why those punches have more effect.
You see the punch coming, you instinctively move out of the way or put something between you and the punch, spoiling the accuracy of the punch. The unseen punch has more of a chance of landing flush with the target.
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