Rocky Marciano vs. Muhammad Ali

[C. M. Clay II]

Originally Posted by kenny weldon

ROCKY MARCIANO stops Ali in five rounds or less .Ali could only throw punches of any significance while moving to his left . He stayed up over his left foot ninety percent of his fights .He was the worst fighter off the ropes than any champion of any kind in history . Marciano moved extremely well to his right,was hard to hit with a jab unless his opponent reached for him,while running into devestating right hands to the body and head both on the ropes and in the corners .Styles make fights and this one is one of the easiest in history to figure out,even for a knowledgable fan . COMMON SENSE FOLKS ! BUT THEN ,WHAT DOE'S COMMON SENSE HAVE TO DO WITH A BIASED BOXING FAN ?.....God bless.....kenny weldon...oh ,and you guys who think Marciano was too small ,forget it .This was an advantage with Ali ,who was made for Rocky ! Me not being an expert like battleing Burt Sugar may disqualify me though...

[C. M. Clay II]

Originally Posted by Luigi1985

I´m no Marciano-groupie when I pick him to win a fantasy matchup.

Which is every time.

[Luigi1985]

Originally Posted by C. M. Clay II

Which is every time.

What´s wrong with picking a fighter who was unbeaten, beat all his fighters fair and well (not with strange decisions), KO´d all his HOF- opponents and never struggled that much with every type of fighter? He didn´t need 100 excusses, everytime another why he lost or needed corrupt and false judges. IMO it´s just normal that a kind of this fighter is automatically favoured against most HW´s in history. I AM LEGEND is right in some parts of his post, some HW´s from the 70s just have their legacies because they fought in the most overrated HW era ever, where there is even today still the biggest propaganda...

[Jbuz]

Ali UD.

All of these matchups have to be done again because of the crash.

[fists of fury]

Good matchup. Great matchup actually.

Which Ali are we talking about? In any event, I see this as Ali-Frazier all over again. Yes, Ali was greased lightning and would probably walk the first three or four rounds with ease.
Ali though, lacks the power to keep Rocky off him and you darn well could bet the farm that Rocky would make a fight of it. At some point, his sheer ruggedness and relentlessness catches up to Ali, and we'd have another Thrilla in Manilla on our hands.
Ali would be catching Marciano with stinging jabs and right hands, and Rocky would be boring in and ripping punches to Ali's body. I see many fierce exchanges between the two men in a bout fought at a frantic pace. Both had indomitable spirits and iron chins, but one thing that could lead to Rocky's downfall is that he was prone to being cut, which against a sharpshooter like Ali spells disaster.

I think the fight is called off late with Ali the winner due to cuts. He'd probably be slightly ahead on the scorecards, but this would have been a war.

[Denny Cruser]

Pre-prisoned Ali has better chance to lose this one. He was quick and slick, but Marciano had good style to bring the pain Ali had bad uppercuts and mediocre inside skills to overcome fantasctic Rocky inside workrate. Even young Clay coudnt run allnight long. It will be like Ali-Frazier 1 bout.
Post-prisoned Ali IMO to rough, strong and clever for Marciano and will run, hit and clinch as Ali-Frazier 2.

[jyuza]

Originally Posted by kenny weldon

ROCKY MARCIANO stops Ali in five rounds or less .Ali could only throw punches of any significance while moving to his left . He stayed up over his left foot ninety percent of his fights .He was the worst fighter off the ropes than any champion of any kind in history . Marciano moved extremely well to his right,was hard to hit with a jab unless his opponent reached for him,while running into devestating right hands to the body and head both on the ropes and in the corners .Styles make fights and this one is one of the easiest in history to figure out,even for a knowledgable fan . COMMON SENSE FOLKS ! BUT THEN ,WHAT DOE'S COMMON SENSE HAVE TO DO WITH A BIASED BOXING FAN ?.....God bless.....kenny weldon...oh ,and you guys who think Marciano was too small ,forget it .This was an advantage with Ali ,who was made for Rocky ! Me not being an expert like battleing Burt Sugar may disqualify me though...

Nobody knock Ali out. Nobody.

[RockyJim]

Ali hated swarmers...Rocky was the best of that breed....This was and is
my all time fantasy fight.....Ali would have to be moving every second of every round...he never did that.....Marciano gave you everything he had every second he was in that ring.He had a great chin...power...stamina...a never say die attitude...he was mentally tough.....very strong.....and I think that this combo is tough to beat with a left jab......stoppage on cuts? The Rock had a knack of coming up with the big punch when need be...and I think that if he thought that the fight was going to be stopped because of cuts...that he would find someway to prevail....as he had done before..as all of the great ones must do.....Take Marciano in this one! The ultimate PPV!!!!

[C. M. Clay II]

Originally Posted by Luigi1985

What´s wrong with picking a fighter who was unbeaten, beat all his fighters fair and well (not with strange decisions), KO´d all his HOF- opponents and never struggled that much with every type of fighter? He didn´t need 100 excusses, everytime another why he lost or needed corrupt and false judges. IMO it´s just normal that a kind of this fighter is automatically favoured against most HW´s in history. I AM LEGEND is right in some parts of his post, some HW´s from the 70s just have their legacies because they fought in the most overrated HW era ever, where there is even today still the biggest propaganda...

Buit when someone picks Ali to win anything, that means that they are "nuthuggers", who are blinded to the truth and know little about boxing history, right?

I smell double standard.

[McGrain]

Originally Posted by C. M. Clay II

Buit when someone picks Ali to win anything, that means that they are "nuthuggers", who are blinded to the truth and know little about boxing history, right?

Hey C.M.

That got me thinking - do you see anyone taking out a peak Ali? Like a stylistic cryptonite or someone like that?

[C. M. Clay II]

Originally Posted by McGrain

Hey C.M.

That got me thinking - do you see anyone taking out a peak Ali? Like a stylistic cryptonite or someone like that?

Well, I think Frazier or Tyson has the best chance of outpointing him, because of their speed and pressure. Holmes might also do it him being a good jabber and all. Also Jack Dempsey also because of his speed and dangerous left hook has a chance. Also a prime Sonny Liston has a fvairly good chance. To beat Ali first and foremost you had to have speed (feet and hands). To me that is the most important thing. That's why I won't give Marciano that much of a chance because that is something he didn't have. You can have all the determination and stamina and pressure in the world, but if you can't find the target then it is useless.

[McGrain]

Originally Posted by C. M. Clay II

Well, I think Frazier or Tyson has the best chance of outpointing him, because of their speed and pressure. Holmes might also do it him being a good jabber and all. Also Jack Dempsey also because of his speed and dangerous left hook has a chance. Also a prime Sonny Liston has a fvairly good chance. To beat Ali first and foremost you had to have speed (feet and hands). To me that is the most important thing. That's why I won't give Marciano that much of a chance because that is something he didn't have. You can have all the determination and stamina and pressure in the world, but if you can't find the target then it is useless.

Good post. The only guy I pick to beat him would be Louis. The guys I give a chance are Tyson, Frazier and possibly Jeffries, but I'd pick Ali to beat these guys. Another interesting one would be Hollyfield, though i'd be happy to lay money on Ali there - just be curious to see how Ali would deal with him

[C. M. Clay II]

Originally Posted by McGrain

Good post. The only guy I pick to beat him would be Louis. The guys I give a chance are Tyson, Frazier and possibly Jeffries, but I'd pick Ali to beat these guys. Another interesting one would be Hollyfield, though i'd be happy to lay money on Ali there - just be curious to see how Ali would deal with him

With all due respect I wouldn't give Louis that much of a chance either. He had handspeed, yes. But he had poor footspeed and he did not know how to apply the necessary effective agression needed to beat a speedster like Ali. He would have to make Ali trade with him, and without closing the gap, that would not happen.

[Dempsey1238]

Marciano had underated hand speed, and he knew how to cut the ring off pretty well. He could make a 18 foot ring seem like a phone booth in a few rounds. He feet work(Or sliding near the foe) keep him pretty close to there foe no matter how fast they were. Walcott and Charles with there speed hardly had any breating room in there fights with Marciano. Dundee said Marciano would look slow, but relly he was doing the left foot drag, he saw him do it vs Ali in that computer fight. Marciano would be able imo to keep up with Ali's foot speed.

[McGrain]

Originally Posted by C. M. Clay II

With all due respect I wouldn't give Louis that much of a chance either. He had handspeed, yes. But he had poor footspeed and he did not know how to apply the necessary effective agression needed to beat a speedster like Ali. He would have to make Ali trade with him, and without closing the gap, that would not happen.

My theory is this: Ali absoultley cannot trade with Louis. But Louis doesn't need a big "in" as he's been faced with that problem his entire career. When Ali starts to fade just a tiny bit around 8 or 9, Louis would get him.

But maybe we should avoid getting in to that here! After all we just had the "Louis-Ali" thread a couple of days back.