Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-14-2012, 10:39 PM   #1
willcross
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 627
vCash: 75
Default Is Ali's win over Foreman a tad over rated?

Why did people consider Ali such an underdog vs Foreman? Did people really consider Ali THAT far past prime?

Ali was about the same age vs Foreman as:

Tyson vs Holy

Pac vs Margo

Floyd vs Marquez

Lennox vs Golota

Vitali vs Lennox

Froch vs Dirrell

None of those guys were seen as being old before those fights? Tyson was past prime for sure vs Holy. I understand that fighters age at different rates, and I understand that Foreman was seen as a wrecking ball after beating Frazier and Norton.

Even considering that, I think the victory is SLIGHTLY over rated.

It just seems that when people remember this fight, they act as if Ali was closer to 42 than 32.
willcross is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 12-14-2012, 11:08 PM   #2
Longhhorn71
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,593
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Is Ali's win over Foreman a tad over rated?

Foreman destroyed both Frazier and Norton....2 fighters Ali had serious problems with.

Plus, extremely "strange things" seem to occur around Ali's major fights up to that point in time.
Longhhorn71 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 12:00 AM   #3
johnmaff36
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: ireland
Posts: 2,609
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Is Ali's win over Foreman a tad over rated?

No. All the other fights you mentioned didnt have people genuinely fearing for 1 of the boxers lifes.

Foreman was considered practically unbeatable at that stage and as the poster above said, had annihilated Frazier and Norton, who had given Ali fits. Doesnt take a genius to figure out what 90% of people thought was gonna happen.

A great win
johnmaff36 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 12:10 AM   #4
Bummy Davis
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 8,830
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Is Ali's win over Foreman a tad over rated?

Foreman was really beatable but only a few knew how to do it....a Big win for Ali and would have been a great win for any ATG, Foreman was beatable but not by any means an easy guy to beat.
Bummy Davis is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 12:16 AM   #5
HOUDINI
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: The Garden State
Posts: 1,861
vCash: 500
Default Re: Is Ali's win over Foreman a tad over rated?

Foreman was a force of nature. His extreme strength and physical presence in the ring coupled with his punching power, durability and will to win made him a wrecking all of a fighter. The night he fought Ali very few would have stood up to him. Alis ko of Foreman Is in no way over rated. One of the great upsets in boxing history.
HOUDINI is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 02:17 AM   #6
TheSouthpaw
Champion
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,919
vCash: 500
Default Re: Is Ali's win over Foreman a tad over rated?

Not whats so ever. Ali came into that fight am 8 to 1 underdog, Up to that point Foreman had only been past the 3rd 4 times cause he was killin guys. Ali puled off the impossible so my no means is it overrated. In fact its in my top fight favorite fights ever.
TheSouthpaw is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 05:03 AM   #7
Stevie G
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: London,England
Posts: 8,989
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Is Ali's win over Foreman a tad over rated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by willcross View Post
Why did people consider Ali such an underdog vs Foreman? Did people really consider Ali THAT far past prime?

Ali was about the same age vs Foreman as:

Tyson vs Holy

Pac vs Margo

Floyd vs Marquez

Lennox vs Golota

Vitali vs Lennox

Froch vs Dirrell

None of those guys were seen as being old before those fights? Tyson was past prime for sure vs Holy. I understand that fighters age at different rates, and I understand that Foreman was seen as a wrecking ball after beating Frazier and Norton.

Even considering that, I think the victory is SLIGHTLY over rated.

It just seems that when people remember this fight, they act as if Ali was closer to 42 than 32.


Foreman was looked at as being Sonny Liston and Joe Louis combined at the time. Most thought that the best Ali would do was to last longer than Frazier and Norton. Probably five rounds. It was an incredible legacy sealing victory for Ali. Not only by winning,but by doing it in such an unorthodox manner.

What still makes me laugh is that before the fight,George was viewed as an unbeatable monster,but afterwards he was criticised for being 'amateurish' and having no stamina And the victory was on the level. No matter what bullshit comes out of some people's mouths.
Stevie G is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 05:48 AM   #8
The Spider
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Default Re: Is Ali's win over Foreman a tad over rated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HOUDINI View Post
Foreman was a force of nature. His extreme strength and physical presence in the ring coupled with his punching power, durability and will to win made him a wrecking all of a fighter. The night he fought Ali very few would have stood up to him. Alis ko of Foreman Is in no way over rated. One of the great upsets in boxing history.
 Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 06:01 AM   #9
My dinner with Conteh
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,999
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Is Ali's win over Foreman a tad over rated?

The win isn't overrated but the upset is. The odds the night before we billed as 3-1 (pre-fight issue of Boxing News printed a day or two before the fight), this seems the most accurate but various reports have seen this reach 7-1 and so on- the post fight report (sports illustrated a week later) seems to suggest it was 3-1 at fight time also, but i'm sure this will be around 14-1 by the time this thread reaches page 20.

Ali was way too popular a fighter for everyone to pick against him, especially in the world of sad, starry-eyed fandom that follows the super-famous like Ali. But in this case, it wasn't just fanboy nuthugging- Ali was tipped by some neutrals as a 'live underdog' over here and very decent writers in Boxing News in the pre-fight issue, one, Harry Mullan, got the fight almost spot on. In fact of the five hacks who gave pre-fight predictions in BN- 3 picked Ali. That said, overall it is definitely an upset but nowhere near an upset on the Douglas-Tyson or even the Curry-Honeghan levels, some people just want to believe it is.
My dinner with Conteh is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 06:11 AM   #10
My dinner with Conteh
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,999
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Is Ali's win over Foreman a tad over rated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie G View Post
What still makes me laugh is that before the fight,George was viewed as an unbeatable monster,but afterwards he was criticised for being 'amateurish' and having no stamina.
Yes, let's laugh along...

Lee Kerr:

"I've often wondered what would happen to Foreman were George to draw someone capable of living with him for six rounds. I seriously doubt he can go the distance without collapsing in exhaustion from his own hit-&-miss exertions. I can still visualize him sucking air like a fish out of water in the stretch drive of his go with Greg Peralta."



Harry Mullan:

"I am yet to be convinced Foreman has the tools to beat Ali and i don't believe he is intelligent enough to change tactis or adapt himself to new situations. I feel that Ali's decreasing speed and stamina will be counteracted by Foreman's increasing tiredness and frustration, so the two factors will cancel each other out"


Simon Euan Smith

"I know Muhammad can't float like he used to, but Foreman is so cumbersome Ali should be able to keep out of his way for those perilous early rounds. After that, when Foreman starts getting short of breath, tired and frustrated, Ali can take over.".
My dinner with Conteh is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 06:51 AM   #11
dyna
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,363
vCash: 1551
Default Re: Is Ali's win over Foreman a tad over rated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh View Post
Yes, let's laugh along...

Lee Kerr:

"I've often wondered what would happen to Foreman were George to draw someone capable of living with him for six rounds. I seriously doubt he can go the distance without collapsing in exhaustion from his own hit-&-miss exertions. I can still visualize him sucking air like a fish out of water in the stretch drive of his go with Greg Peralta."



Harry Mullan:

"I am yet to be convinced Foreman has the tools to beat Ali and i don't believe he is intelligent enough to change tactis or adapt himself to new situations. I feel that Ali's decreasing speed and stamina will be counteracted by Foreman's increasing tiredness and frustration, so the two factors will cancel each other out"


Simon Euan Smith

"I know Muhammad can't float like he used to, but Foreman is so cumbersome Ali should be able to keep out of his way for those perilous early rounds. After that, when Foreman starts getting short of breath, tired and frustrated, Ali can take over.".
Sonny Liston was seen as much more unbeatable before fighting Ali that foreman had ever been.
foreman his stamina problems were already known, Liston was known to be dangerous for all rounds.

Looking at who was the most intimidating in his era, Liston would smash foreman.
Liston beat smaller men, but nobody knew the hw division was still growing in size then.
dyna is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 06:57 AM   #12
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 22,447
vCash: 330
Default Re: Is Ali's win over Foreman a tad over rated?

it's great to see some of the old usernames back here

Still massively grateful for those rankings you emailed me a year or so back MDWC
lufcrazy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 07:07 AM   #13
SolomonDeedes
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 120
vCash: 500
Default Re: Is Ali's win over Foreman a tad over rated?

Times have changed. It's commonplace now for fighters to remain at the top well into their thirties. When you look at Ali's predecessors as champion, only a handful of them continued defending the title past the age of 32.
SolomonDeedes is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 07:19 AM   #14
Stevie G
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: London,England
Posts: 8,989
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Is Ali's win over Foreman a tad over rated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh View Post
The win isn't overrated but the upset is. The odds the night before we billed as 3-1 (pre-fight issue of Boxing News printed a day or two before the fight), this seems the most accurate but various reports have seen this reach 7-1 and so on- the post fight report (sports illustrated a week later) seems to suggest it was 3-1 at fight time also, but i'm sure this will be around 14-1 by the time this thread reaches page 20.

Ali was way too popular a fighter for everyone to pick against him, especially in the world of sad, starry-eyed fandom that follows the super-famous like Ali. But in this case, it wasn't just fanboy nuthugging- Ali was tipped by some neutrals as a 'live underdog' over here and very decent writers in Boxing News in the pre-fight issue, one, Harry Mullan, got the fight almost spot on. In fact of the five hacks who gave pre-fight predictions in BN- 3 picked Ali. That said, overall it is definitely an upset but nowhere near an upset on the Douglas-Tyson or even the Curry-Honeghan levels, some people just want to believe it is.

I recall Colin Hart of The Sun predicting an Ali win too.
Stevie G is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 07:21 AM   #15
Stevie G
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: London,England
Posts: 8,989
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Is Ali's win over Foreman a tad over rated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh View Post
Yes, let's laugh along...

Lee Kerr:

"I've often wondered what would happen to Foreman were George to draw someone capable of living with him for six rounds. I seriously doubt he can go the distance without collapsing in exhaustion from his own hit-&-miss exertions. I can still visualize him sucking air like a fish out of water in the stretch drive of his go with Greg Peralta."



Harry Mullan:

"I am yet to be convinced Foreman has the tools to beat Ali and i don't believe he is intelligent enough to change tactis or adapt himself to new situations. I feel that Ali's decreasing speed and stamina will be counteracted by Foreman's increasing tiredness and frustration, so the two factors will cancel each other out"


Simon Euan Smith

"I know Muhammad can't float like he used to, but Foreman is so cumbersome Ali should be able to keep out of his way for those perilous early rounds. After that, when Foreman starts getting short of breath, tired and frustrated, Ali can take over.".

Thing is,these sharp minded pundits were in the minority,Conteh. Many,the likes of Jerry Quarry and Joe Louis included,all went for Foreman within four rounds. Ken Norton plumped for Ali,though.
Stevie G is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013