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Old 07-18-2007, 11:52 AM   #31
PH|LLA
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Default Re: Who is the msot technically perfect active fighter?

Hopkins by a landslide
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Old 07-18-2007, 12:53 PM   #32
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Default Re: Who is the msot technically perfect active fighter?

Ronald "Winky" Wright
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Old 07-18-2007, 12:56 PM   #33
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Default Re: Who is the msot technically perfect active fighter?

Calderon
Hopkins
JMM
PBF
Wright
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Old 07-18-2007, 01:02 PM   #34
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Default Re: Who is the msot technically perfect active fighter?

I have a couple

Hopkins-He does everything right. In my opinion, he dosen't do anything spectacular. He just does everything textbook and that's why he has had such great sucess.

Floyd-His style isn't textbook, but he has mastered his technique. Especially his defense. His "shoulder roll" defense is the best i've ever seen.

Winky-Hands up, pinpoint accurate jabs that he uses for offense and defense. Just like Hopkins, nothing spectacular, just does everything right.
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Old 07-18-2007, 01:09 PM   #35
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Default Re: Who is the msot technically perfect active fighter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
Well said; though I wouldn't put Hopkins in with Toney and Mayweather. I also think fluidity isn't neccesary for near-technical perfection, but this is an excellent post...

The guys picking Mayweather, i'm intrigued - why? Care to explain your position?
Here is a defense for Mayweather (I pretty much think Raf Marquez is the absolute best technically, but here it goes.)

Not all techniques are the same. Just because no one teaches the philly shell in a boxing 101 textbook does not mean it is a technically flawed approach, just a different one. James Toney was not exactly a prime physical specimen ever since he left middleweight, but he still used those techniques to pull out victories.

PBF is not RJJ. RJJ relied on outstanding physical abilities to win fights with a total lack of any really solid technique. Floyd supplements his amazing technique with outstanding physical abilities.

Floyd's defense allows him to stand right in front of you and he dodges/deflects most of your punches. It is not purely athletic talent that is doing it, but skill in his defensive techniques.

There is more than one way to fight. Some fighters appear to have "poor" footwork, but they win almost all of their fights. Perhaps the reason is because their "poor" footwork is allowing them to get maximum leverage on all of their punches, but it limits their mobility.

Some fighters may have a "poor" stance, with their hands not necessarily held high. But perhaps their stance is allowing them to more effectively punch from different angles, or counterpunch with more power.

Some fighters may have "poor punching form", but perhaps their form allows them to significantly increase their punch output.

Pretty Boy Floyd's style will not be found in any boxing 101 book, but he has totally and completely mastered it. While he may not be "the most perfect" at "how a fighter should fight" he certainly has mastered doing what he does very well, and he clearly gets substantial advantages over his opponent by doing what he does. Floyd would not be as good of a fighter if he was fighting from the boxing 101 textbook.

*edit* On an unrelated note, I see absolutely no way that anyone can say Winky Wright is the most technically perfect. Every time that guy goes into fight his gloves are so big they are like SHIELDS. He only throws straight punches (not exactly the sign of a fighter with a full arsenal.) He has a great physical advantage because his forearms are so big compared to his chest that he is able to completely cover up almost every inch of his body any time he wants to. A boxing novice can be tought how to fight like Winky Wright (obviously he wouldn't become a boxing champion because he doesn't have the experience or the physical advantages) in about 20 minutes. The guy is near unbeatable, but skilled?

Just because you win fights without knocking out your opponent doesn't make you skilled.
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Old 07-18-2007, 01:23 PM   #36
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Default Re: Who is the msot technically perfect active fighter?

joel casamayor should get a good mention...can throw every punch correctly has great movement and technique
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Old 07-18-2007, 01:24 PM   #37
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Default Re: Who is the msot technically perfect active fighter?

i think you should have used Most well rounded SKILLED fighter instead of technical...technical is such a broad term.

Without a doubt though PBF is the most well rounded skilled fighter today.
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Old 07-18-2007, 01:33 PM   #38
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Default Re: Who is the msot technically perfect active fighter?

Juan Manuel Marquez
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Old 07-18-2007, 01:33 PM   #39
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Default Re: Who is the msot technically perfect active fighter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by deevel79
Alot of people would disagree with you. Floyd at 130 & 135 was one of the most well rounded fighters. Now he has become a "one and done" type of fighter. He also lacks power. When was the last time Floyd actually threw a combo? Gatti?
good point about power and coombo's....very good point cant argue that....but like you said he is out his weight class really so he does have power just not at these weights and thats the same for combos to i think but i see your point.
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Old 07-18-2007, 01:48 PM   #40
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Default Re: Who is the msot technically perfect active fighter?

B-Hop and Floyd... and just a mention for Winky.

In Floyd's defense, his punching technique is perfect, along with his footwork which is also extremely good. You can check out his recent match against Judah (after he switched up tactics) and see where he's using just basic technique to beat on Judah noggin'. He cuts off the ring extremely well. His defense my seem unorthodox if you're only looking at his torso, but his footwork is totally correct. The only thing I don't like are his leaping left hooks. Left hooks are best when you're firmly planted on the ground.

BHop does everything perfect. He even cheats perfectly. He needs to do it all very well to makeup for his lack of outstanding power and speed.

Winky punches very well, but I don't like his wide stance. I understand he needs such a wide stance to absorb punches, but it also forces him to plod forward. I also don't like his lack of commitment to his punches. But again, I understand that he needs to do that so he can get his guard up quickly. So I'm on the fence regarding Winky.
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Old 07-18-2007, 01:54 PM   #41
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Default Re: Who is the msot technically perfect active fighter?

Technically perfect, now that would depend on the fighters style or it would depend on how the fighter throws punches, stands, recovers, holds his guard, parries, bobs, weaves, blocks, guards etc.

IMO there are many styles out there that work extremely well if used correctly and by the right type of fighter, in conjunction with things mentioned up top. Some guys have great quickness, so utilizing a lead left hook which would be a deffinate no no for many fighters would actually be a great weapon to be used technically for certain styles which take into consideration great quickness. Accuracy and athleticism and chin are other aspects. James Toney in his prime was one of those guys who could take a jab or a cross for example and set up combinations off of taking certain punches to land his own.

This being said I really like James Toney, Floyd, MAB, Marquez's, a prime Forrest, and of all people Kessler. You can take a look at how successful fighters are as they age.. Once youth is out the door, technique is what tends to carry fighters into their mid to later years. Fighters need to utilize the correct style of fighting with technique in order to have successful careers. If you utilize techniques which play into your natural abilities extremely well, then you are going to have a successful career.

So yeah, guys like BHOP and Barrera are extremely cerebral fighters, who's styles are based on what other fighters do. BHOP is a master at remembering patterns in his opposition, pulling the trigger at the right moment, finding openings. I think Barrera is similar but more offensively oriented when he is fighting at his best. JMM is in this category as well.

Wright is based off of defense, pressure and chin.

Forrest imo has the perfect counter style to quick fighters.. I think if there were a prime version of him around today he would have the bane style to Floyd Mayweather, working off the jab and big cross, controlling range.
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Old 07-18-2007, 02:12 PM   #42
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Default Re: Who is the msot technically perfect active fighter?

Its Hopkins....by a mile.

Floyd is great....but his defensive style is anything but textbook.
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Old 07-18-2007, 06:28 PM   #43
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Default Re: Who is the msot technically perfect active fighter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozziebattler
You dont learn to box through a MANUAL.
I know that, but thanks.

My point wasn't that the guys i'm talking about actually get a MANUAL and start reading.

My point was that there is a technically perfect way of throwing a jab, for example.

Quote:
I dont like mayweather but he seems to be doing alright dont you reckon..???hasnt lost and dont like losing anytime soon..
I do like him. Do you think i'm attacking him by calling him less than technically perfect? Why do you think that?

Ali, Roy Jones, there are many great fighters who are not technically excellent in many departments.

Quote:
And their aint no such thing as technically perfect...boxers aint robots you know ppl??
I think this has been covered earlier in the thread.

But thanks for pointing out to us all that fighters aren't robots.

Quote:
too many nerds who havent laced a glove in their life on this website..
Maybe you should find somewhere else to post if you don't like it.

I've boxed. Not going to be a world champ of anything, but i've done it. WTF has that got to with a chat about tecnical boxing?
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Old 07-18-2007, 06:38 PM   #44
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Default Re: Who is the msot technically perfect active fighter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by codeman99998
Here is a defense for Mayweather (I pretty much think Raf Marquez is the absolute best technically, but here it goes.)

Not all techniques are the same. Just because no one teaches the philly shell in a boxing 101 textbook does not mean it is a technically flawed approach, just a different one. James Toney was not exactly a prime physical specimen ever since he left middleweight, but he still used those techniques to pull out victories.
Good points.

From the point of view of deploying techniques as perfectly as possible though, Toney is a difficult example - maybe the most difficult. But I agree with your basic point.

Quote:
PBF is not RJJ. RJJ relied on outstanding physical abilities to win fights with a total lack of any really solid technique. Floyd supplements his amazing technique with outstanding physical abilities.
I think PBF gets away with the hands low shoulder roll because of his astonishing athletecism in the same way that RJJ would. I do think that Floyd's basics are more sound than Roy's.



Quote:
Floyd's defense allows him to stand right in front of you and he dodges/deflects most of your punches. It is not purely athletic talent that is doing it, but skill in his defensive techniques.
Yes. The difference is that a technically perfect defensive roll will be just as effective when he is 45 and all his speed is gone, whereas what he does now is reliant on his speed. You know? That is why Hopkins is such a great example of near-technical perfection - he's over 40 and it's hurt him much less than his contemparies (Tarver, Johnson, Jones).

Quote:
There is more than one way to fight. Some fighters appear to have "poor" footwork, but they win almost all of their fights. Perhaps the reason is because their "poor" footwork is allowing them to get maximum leverage on all of their punches, but it limits their mobility.
Well they are different facets of technique (IMO) - one is leverage via positioning, the other is footwork related to mobility. I believe it is possible to do both well so I wouldn't look to a fighter getting great leverage because of his poor mobility as an example of great technique when it is possible (Dempsey, Sanchez, Barrera) to achieve both.


Quote:
*edit* On an unrelated note, I see absolutely no way that anyone can say Winky Wright is the most technically perfect. Every time that guy goes into fight his gloves are so big they are like SHIELDS. He only throws straight punches (not exactly the sign of a fighter with a full arsenal.) He has a great physical advantage because his forearms are so big compared to his chest that he is able to completely cover up almost every inch of his body any time he wants to. A boxing novice can be tought how to fight like Winky Wright (obviously he wouldn't become a boxing champion because he doesn't have the experience or the physical advantages) in about 20 minutes. The guy is near unbeatable, but skilled?

Just because you win fights without knocking out your opponent doesn't make you skilled.

Excellent post. Interesting stuff about Winky. I partially agree. I think that the punches he does throw are tecnhically near perfect though.

Last edited by McGrain; 07-18-2007 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 07-18-2007, 06:42 PM   #45
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Default Re: Who is the msot technically perfect active fighter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxime
Bernard Hopkins
+1

1. Bernard
2. JMM
3. Mayweather(speed and natural gifts allow for mistakes).
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