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Old 05-16-2008, 03:05 PM   #1
D-MAC
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Default Should Joe C be happy with his legacy?

This is a scenario that presumes he retires today.

Would he regret not having gotten into the big-fight mix a bit sooner.
His primary wins were against Lacy, Kessler and Hopkins. Haters will throw the "Bum" and "old man" tags at two of those fights (I don't). I think a lot will depend on what Kessler does in the rest of his career; a good string of top victories for the Dane will make Calzaghe's win over him look so much better.

But would Calzaghe be that happy himself at the moment, or would he be thinking "I wish I could have got into the ring with the Jones' and Toney's when they were still hanging about in their prime."

Could Calzaghe's legacy have been that much better if he/his promoter had taken a few more risks back in the day?

I know there was the whole problem with his hands, and that there were a few fight cancellations, but I also believe that there was too much emphasis on protecting the "0" in the loss column. I feel we could be talking about "Joe the boxer" in more elevated terms if he had mixed in a few more competitive bouts, even if this resulted in a couple of more losses on his record. The fights he has had in the last couple of years have shown what he is capable of.
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Old 05-16-2008, 03:11 PM   #2
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Default Re: Should Joe C be happy with his legacy?

All very good points but I think Joe will be more than happy with what he has acheived.
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Old 05-16-2008, 03:44 PM   #3
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Default Re: Should Joe C be happy with his legacy?

He has a wonderful career. He is the best 168 ever. A top all time P4P with his win over X. However I'd like a going away present. A war against Pavlik. Nothing like saying goodbye when you beat your potential predecessor. A young, undefeated, linear champ who has got the size and skill.
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Old 05-16-2008, 03:53 PM   #4
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Default Re: Should Joe C be happy with his legacy?

Given factors such as his hands and a messy divorce I'd say he will be pleased. Maybe he wishes he went to the States a little earlier.
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Old 05-16-2008, 04:09 PM   #5
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Default Re: Should Joe C be happy with his legacy?

He should be very happy. The "super" fights sometimes evade fighters their entire career..so its good Joe got a few towards the end.

The Jones and Toney argument should be for Eubank, Benn and Collins not Calzaghe.....

Toney was a journeyman Lightheavy on his way to cruiserweight by the time Joe arrived at world level.

Jones was happy making safe defences of his belts at lt heavy and wasnt interested in any unknown threats from supermiddle or cruiserweight.
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Old 05-16-2008, 04:10 PM   #6
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Default Re: Should Joe C be happy with his legacy?

What do you mean by pleased?

He is the first undisputed champion in the history of the supermiddleweight division, lineal champion at super middleweight and light heavyweight, longest reigning champion of this era.

That isnt half bad.

On the other hand he did waste most of his prime years fighting safe opponents at the instigation of his evil backers.

It is a shame he couldnt have done more earlier in his career, but lets face it he did pleanty and is certainly one of the greatest British fighters of all time.
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Old 05-16-2008, 04:15 PM   #7
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Default Re: Should Joe C be happy with his legacy?

It's the fights that make the legacies, not the records. I agree that there is an over emphasis on the 0.

Having said that, Calzaghe didn't have too many potential super fight options anyway.

He's definitely in anybody's UK Top 5.

But on the world level, I wouldn't call him a legend (not entirely his fault either).
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Old 05-16-2008, 04:18 PM   #8
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Default Re: Should Joe C be happy with his legacy?

whenever you can say that you were w/o a doubt, the best in your division for 10 years, you can retire happily
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Old 05-16-2008, 04:19 PM   #9
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Default Re: Should Joe C be happy with his legacy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akxtinguish
It's the fights that make the legacies, not the records. I agree that there is an over emphasis on the 0.

Having said that, Calzaghe didn't have too many potential super fight options anyway.

He's definitely in anybody's UK Top 5.

But on the world level, I wouldn't call him a legend (not entirely his fault either).
Agreed

On the world level he's nothing like a legend. He can barely say he has a legacy.

I'm not a knocker of Joe. But let's be realistic. He was unheard of outside these shores until recent times. And he wasn't that big news here really.


But the man has worked and worked and won and won and gets full respect from me.
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Old 05-16-2008, 04:28 PM   #10
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Default Re: Should Joe C be happy with his legacy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by trotter
Agreed

On the world level he's nothing like a legend. He can barely say he has a legacy.

I'm not a knocker of Joe. But let's be realistic. He was unheard of outside these shores until recent times. And he wasn't that big news here really.


But the man has worked and worked and won and won and gets full respect from me.
"Heard of in the US" is the first criterion used when assessing 'legend' status, obviously. Don't you think it's sad that a boxer was a champion for 8 years or something and you people had never heard of him? I think that has a damn sight more to do with the fact that over the years, there's been an unbelievable decline in US boxing fans (given their decline in talent).
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Old 05-16-2008, 04:37 PM   #11
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Default Re: Should Joe C be happy with his legacy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akxtinguish
It's the fights that make the legacies, not the records.
Debatable.

If you look at boxing history, there are a lot of "legends" who built their resumes on volume and consistency rather than wins over top opponents.

What superfight made Larry Holmses record for example?
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Old 05-16-2008, 04:40 PM   #12
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Default Re: Should Joe C be happy with his legacy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor
What do you mean by pleased?

He is the first undisputed champion in the history of the supermiddleweight division, lineal champion at super middleweight and light heavyweight, longest reigning champion of this era.

That isnt half bad.

On the other hand he did waste most of his prime years fighting safe opponents at the instigation of his evil backers.

It is a shame he couldnt have done more earlier in his career, but lets face it he did pleanty and is certainly one of the greatest British fighters of all time.
I'm thinking about in his own head. It's been a great career, and Joe should be rightly proud of that, but I'm thinking is he saying to himself "Job well done...but hell, I wish I had have started getting into these big fights when I was a bit younger." I take the point though about outside influences having a factor.
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Old 05-16-2008, 04:41 PM   #13
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Default Re: Should Joe C be happy with his legacy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wayne3280
"Heard of in the US" is the first criterion used when assessing 'legend' status, obviously. Don't you think it's sad that a boxer was a champion for 8 years or something and you people had never heard of him? I think that has a damn sight more to do with the fact that over the years, there's been an unbelievable decline in US boxing fans (given their decline in talent).
'You people'? I'm British. You may have misread my post I think fella...but anyway...

Yeah I think it's a real shame actually - but if you want to have a real 'legacy' I think you simply have to go to the States and fight in some classic fights, even to this day.

Ideally this would not be the case but I think it still is...
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Old 05-16-2008, 04:46 PM   #14
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Default Re: Should Joe C be happy with his legacy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-MAC
I'm thinking about in his own head. It's been a great career, and Joe should be rightly proud of that, but I'm thinking is he saying to himself "Job well done...but hell, I wish I had have started getting into these big fights when I was a bit younger." I take the point though about outside influences having a factor.
Every fighter could have made better career choices and Calzaghe is a prime example, but I hope that he will take pride in his acomplishments and retire verry pleased with himself.

I was a critic for most of his WBO title reign but he knocked me out in the end.

He can put that on boxrec if he likes.
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Old 05-16-2008, 04:46 PM   #15
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Default Re: Should Joe C be happy with his legacy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor
Debatable.

If you look at boxing history, there are a lot of "legends" who built their resumes on volume and consistency rather than wins over top opponents.

What superfight made Larry Holmses record for example?
Larry Holmes has probably never had the credit he deserved though...

He probably illustrates exactly the opposite of what you are trying to say

Joe could retire with a similar rep to Holmes - some people will say 'he was one of the very best ever in his prime' but generally, people will be a tad nonplussed. He never had the rivalries, the mega-fights, to switch people onto him in my opinion
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