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Old 05-16-2008, 04:52 PM   #16
faisal
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Default Re: Should Joe C be happy with his legacy?

looking at him now its hard to fathom how competive he would have been if he fought roy or james toney
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Old 05-16-2008, 04:52 PM   #17
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Default Re: Should Joe C be happy with his legacy?

Yes he will be very pleased, and so will ******.
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Old 05-16-2008, 05:04 PM   #18
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Default Re: Should Joe C be happy with his legacy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by trotter
Larry Holmes has probably never had the credit he deserved though...

He probably illustrates exactly the opposite of what you are trying to say

Joe could retire with a similar rep to Holmes - some people will say 'he was one of the very best ever in his prime' but generally, people will be a tad nonplussed. He never had the rivalries, the mega-fights, to switch people onto him in my opinion
But he did have the mega fights.

Lacey
Whatever actualy took place, most people on this board said, not only that that Calzaghe would destroyed, but that he would probably cry out of the fight with an injurybefore the first bell.

Kessler
Huge fight that everybody on this site wanted. Much bitternes every time it was stopped. This was to decide the greatest SMW of all time.

Hopkins
The same people who now dismiss the win because Hopkins was old, picked Hopkins to take Calzaghe apart.
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Old 05-16-2008, 05:53 PM   #19
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Default Re: Should Joe C be happy with his legacy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor
Every fighter could have made better career choices and Calzaghe is a prime example, but I hope that he will take pride in his acomplishments and retire verry pleased with himself.

I was a critic for most of his WBO title reign but he knocked me out in the end.

He can put that on boxrec if he likes.
Exactly the same as me. I was a critic for so many years, but now I've seen him hang tough with the elite, and I keep thinking why this could have not have happened sooner. I think that most peiople will agree that he was a bit past his prime in all three of his big wins; just imagine what he could have done when he was at the top of his game.
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Old 05-16-2008, 06:31 PM   #20
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Default Re: Should Joe C be happy with his legacy?

Joes had some great wins but will not be truly appreciated until long after he has retired. This is no bad thing, because how you are remembered is THE most important thing.

Everybody seems to have the same opinion of Lacy now but that was the biggest fight at super middle since Benn - Mcclellan!

And Mikkel Kessler Was definately a super fight, if you have all of the European boxing fans and American boxing fans clamouring after a fight which sells 50,000 tickets, which has two undefeated world champs and is for the first undisputed tite at the weight then yes its definatley a superfight.

Hopkins was a big fight due to the fact that he held the Rings (and arguably the linear) light heavyweight title and was universally considered one of the very best p4p in boxing. Joe travelled to the US and got the title, definately a huge fight, if an uninspiring one.

People forget his body of work before Lacy though, he beat many top world rated contenders. Were Mitchell, Brewer, Sheika, Eubank, Ried not world class fighters...?

People dismiss Richie Woodhall now but he was good enough to win the WBCs version of the title, Mario Viet was 30-0 when Calzaghe knocked him out and when Viet came back to get the WBO interim bauble, Calzaghe dismissed him easy again, he beat a young domestic contnder like David Starie (who had a very Froch-esqe record) with an injury. Even Manfredo was in the The Rings Top 10 at 168. Sakio Bika was also bashed as a typical Calzaghe oponent even though he would give anybody at the weight trouble and looking back was a very good scalp for Calzaghe as he is still a contender now.

Admittedly the Kid Fire Mccintyre, Thornberrys and Tocker Pudwills are a bit blurgh...

Calzaghe hasnt actually retired yet I see another big name on the record before he calls it a day as undefeated champion of the world.

Definately one of the very best British fighters of all time.
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Old 05-16-2008, 06:33 PM   #21
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Default Re: Should Joe C be happy with his legacy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor
But he did have the mega fights.

Lacey
Whatever actualy took place, most people on this board said, not only that that Calzaghe would destroyed, but that he would probably cry out of the fight with an injurybefore the first bell.

Kessler
Huge fight that everybody on this site wanted. Much bitternes every time it was stopped. This was to decide the greatest SMW of all time.

Hopkins
The same people who now dismiss the win because Hopkins was old, picked Hopkins to take Calzaghe apart.
Dude, I ain't putting Joe down

And those 3 were very good wins indeed

But they weren't Hagler - Hearns, Leonard - Duran, Ali-Frazier, Morales-Barrera

If we're talking legacy and 'all time greats' those kind of fights are the benchmark and Joe's major wins are nowhere near, just nowhere near AT ALL in terms of what fight fans will look back on fondly in years to come

When we talk about great fighters in the future Joe will forever be a 'dark horse' and a connoisseurs pick in my opinion. He didn't fight other peak fighters when he was at his peak for whatever reasons and therefore we'll never have definitive answers about how good he actually was

And I don't think Joe will truly know how good he was either...
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Old 05-16-2008, 06:34 PM   #22
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Default Re: Should Joe C be happy with his legacy?

No, he'll be gutted being unbeaten, undisputed supermiddle weight champion, the greatest in the history of his division, and a 2 weight world champion

Oh well, at least he didn't make much money in his career
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Old 05-16-2008, 06:42 PM   #23
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Default Re: Should Joe C be happy with his legacy?

he should be happy with his legacy but even he knows he'll never be top 10 p4p. he beat the best he could, sold out the millenium stadium, was named the BBC's Sportsman of the Year and justified his reign by ending his career with his best fights.

He'll never be an Ali or Joe Louis but when ppl look back at his career they'll see that at the end of his career he took on the best the world had to offer at his weight division nad went out on top.

Whats not to be happy with?
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Old 05-16-2008, 06:51 PM   #24
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Default Re: Should Joe C be happy with his legacy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Rock
he should be happy with his legacy but even he knows he'll never be top 10 p4p. he beat the best he could, sold out the millenium stadium, was named the BBC's Sportsman of the Year and justified his reign by ending his career with his best fights.

He'll never be an Ali or Joe Louis but when ppl look back at his career they'll see that at the end of his career he took on the best the world had to offer at his weight division nad went out on top.

Whats not to be happy with?
Erm, I'm pretty sure he's a top 10 p4p, top 3 in any sane persons book...

Top 10 ATG status is a completely different and unrealistic expectation. It is a big ask for any modern day fighter to achieve as fights are irregular and difficult to make
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Old 05-16-2008, 07:07 PM   #25
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Default Re: Should Joe C be happy with his legacy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TFFP
Erm, I'm pretty sure he's a top 10 p4p, top 3 in any sane persons book...

Top 10 ATG status is a completely different and unrealistic expectation. It is a big ask for any modern day fighter to achieve as fights are irregular and difficult to make
He may mean all-time...at least I hope he does.
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Old 05-16-2008, 07:30 PM   #26
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Default Re: Should Joe C be happy with his legacy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor
But he did have the mega fights.

Lacey
Whatever actualy took place, most people on this board said, not only that that Calzaghe would destroyed, but that he would probably cry out of the fight with an injurybefore the first bell.

Kessler
Huge fight that everybody on this site wanted. Much bitternes every time it was stopped. This was to decide the greatest SMW of all time.

Hopkins
The same people who now dismiss the win because Hopkins was old, picked Hopkins to take Calzaghe apart.
that's right, after he beat lacy everybody said he gets beaten by kessler. after he beat kessler everybody said bring on hopkins. after he beat hopkins people are talking about pavlik or rjj. if he gets past them, then he gets no credit, because one is a middleweight who moved up and the other is shot. for some calzaghe can't win...
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:04 PM   #27
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Default Re: Should Joe C be happy with his legacy?

how many boxers have retired and done so with an unblemished record.
if joe retires undefeated, this alone would be good enough for him to be very satisfied with what he has done and 10 years of world title defences.
just remember every single opponent that has shared the ring with calzaghe has left it a loser.!!!!!
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:20 PM   #28
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Default Re: Should Joe C be happy with his legacy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by columbo man
how many boxers have retired and done so with an unblemished record.
if joe retires undefeated, this alone would be good enough for him to be very satisfied with what he has done and 10 years of world title defences.
just remember every single opponent that has shared the ring with calzaghe has left it a loser.!!!!!
Sven Ottke???

The "0" is not everything. If you compiled your list of the greatest fighters of all-time, I don't think an unbeaten record would come into the equation.
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:22 PM   #29
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Default Re: Should Joe C be happy with his legacy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-MAC
Sven Ottke???

The "0" is not everything. If you compiled your list of the greatest fighters of all-time, I don't think an unbeaten record would come into the equation.
Unbeaten haven beaten reasonable opposition soundly and without homecooking is another matter
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:35 PM   #30
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Default Re: Should Joe C be happy with his legacy?

My problem with JC is that he is embarrassing to watch. Show some of his "big" fights to your kids in 20 years time and they'll laugh at his slapping.

Hes a classic ****** fighter - fights bums most of the time and only fights "great" fighters once they are shot.

He barely makes my top 40 in terms of ATGs.
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