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Old 07-18-2007, 06:58 PM   #1
McGrain
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Default Lennox Lewis and Jack Dempsey: Styles, A Twisted Mirror?

I apologise for the title of this thread.

Lennox Lewis could be described as a slugger with a boxer's style.

Could Dempsey be described as a boxer with a slugger's style?

Let's have a quick look -


Lennox Lewis is often cricised for being reticent, not aggressive enough. He often described himself as a pugilist specialist. Meanwhile, we see he has tremendous power, great strength, excellent defensive infighting skills and supsect stamina and chin - everything a slugger who may need to defend/rest might need. But his safety first mentality resulted in a very different style.

With Dempsey you have a fighter who is most comfortable up on his toes, quick, with very quick hands. He throws great combo's, has great reactions, times his man, is a natural counterpuncher.

Of course he can slug too - see the left hook that supposedly shattered Willard's cheek bone in 13 places. But it may be worth remembering that that shot was part of a combo which began with a two handed attack on the body and came after patient stalking.

Dempsey seemed to think about every punch, made great angles, had excellent stamina and was all round a very intelligent fighter.

And yet he was a vicious boxer who was set to seek and destroy seemingly from the first bell. Again, perhaps this is about mentality. Dempsey describes feelings of fear, that he may be beaten if he doesn't take his man out early, that he may be killed if he isn't the one doing the killing.

My question is: Do you think these fighters would have been as - or even more - succesful if they'd swaped styles?

Last edited by McGrain; 07-18-2007 at 07:23 PM.
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Old 07-18-2007, 07:22 PM   #2
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis and Jack Dempsey: Styles, A Twisted Mirror?

If guys like McCall and Rahman could take Lewis out, the Manassa Mauler destroys him early.

Lewis might have a size advantage, but when Dempsey starts throwing leather, Lewis ends up getting beat up just like Willard did. Willard, however, had a better chin. This one ends with Lewis out cold on the canvas.
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Old 07-18-2007, 07:30 PM   #3
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis and Jack Dempsey: Styles, A Twisted Mirror?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zakman
If guys like McCall and Rahman could take Lewis out, the Manassa Mauler destroys him early.

Lewis might have a size advantage, but when Dempsey starts throwing leather, Lewis ends up getting beat up just like Willard did. Willard, however, had a better chin. This one ends with Lewis out cold on the canvas.
Agreed.

Dempsey did try to change his style for Sharkey, but it didn't work out for him very well. For the most part, that bout went Sharkey's way until the sudden kayo. (I'm not overlooking the fact that Dempsey's prime had already ended early.)

Interesting question where Lewis is concerned, not one I can offer any sort of informed opinion about.
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Old 07-18-2007, 07:33 PM   #4
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis and Jack Dempsey: Styles, A Twisted Mirror?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zakman
If guys like McCall and Rahman could take Lewis out, the Manassa Mauler destroys him early.

...well this thread isn't about Dempsey v Lewis.

But you do know that Lewis fought better fighters than the two you've mentioned and not been knocked out?
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Old 07-18-2007, 08:18 PM   #5
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis and Jack Dempsey: Styles, A Twisted Mirror?

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Originally Posted by McGrain
...well this thread isn't about Dempsey v Lewis.
Ooops.....force of habit, I guess!!

Seriously, though, if Dempsey and Lewis switched styles, Lewis would have gotten knocked out MORE often. Were he to have been that aggressive, those shaky whiskers would have gotten badly exposed many times.

Dempsey just would have been boring - I don't even want to think about it, really.
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Old 07-18-2007, 08:19 PM   #6
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis and Jack Dempsey: Styles, A Twisted Mirror?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
...well this thread isn't about Dempsey v Lewis.

But you do know that Lewis fought better fighters than the two you've mentioned and not been knocked out?
I think they were better off with thier styles although this is an interesting thread.

Dempsey being a swarmer had the luxury unlike Frazier, Tyson or Marciano of opting to box as opposed to fighting aggressively soley on the fact that he had the height to be a boxer. Whereas Tyson, Frazier and Marciano were short guys who had to fight the way they fight to be successful. I think his style was perfect for his time. Ultra aggressive yet it played into his physicalities of speed strength and power.

Lewis on the other hand was again better off the way he was. Although between the two of them Lewis probably would have been the more sucessful one by swapping styles. Thing about Lewis is his chin has always been put into questions. While I dont believe its China I do believe that a big puncher can end things abruptly with one well placed shot. Would he be sucessful as a slugger yes but only mildly. He'd probably end up in the same tier as Ruddock, Morrison, Mercer group.
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Old 07-18-2007, 08:20 PM   #7
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis and Jack Dempsey: Styles, A Twisted Mirror?

Its interesting you describe dempsey as a counter puncher,

I know Tyson liked dempsey's style and incorporated it into his. So I would of thought he was a pressure puncher(dempsey was).
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Old 07-18-2007, 08:27 PM   #8
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis and Jack Dempsey: Styles, A Twisted Mirror?

Quote:
Originally Posted by damian55
Its interesting you describe dempsey as a counter puncher,

I know Tyson liked dempsey's style and incorporated it into his. So I would of thought he was a pressure puncher(dempsey was).
Ran a thread last week about Dempsey's head movement - his slip and duck, and it was generally agreed that Dempsey had the best head movement in the divisions history. He made his man miss, he countered of that. Not a classic counter puncher perhaps, but countering from the front foot, certainly.
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Old 07-19-2007, 10:13 AM   #9
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis and Jack Dempsey: Styles, A Twisted Mirror?

Quote:
Originally Posted by damian55
Its interesting you describe dempsey as a counter puncher,

I know Tyson liked dempsey's style and incorporated it into his. So I would of thought he was a pressure puncher(dempsey was).
Dempsey didn't counter punch so much against opponents who boxed shorter than he did, but in the opening minute against Willard, Jack slips a jab to counterstrike with a picturesque hook. (He looked like a cobra doing that, and had scribes analogize him to one. Very graceful in his movements.) The mid ring right to Tunney's temple, which initiated the Long Count KD sequence, was also a countershot, off of Tunney's slipped jab.
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Old 07-19-2007, 10:19 AM   #10
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis and Jack Dempsey: Styles, A Twisted Mirror?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zakman
If guys like McCall and Rahman could take Lewis out, the Manassa Mauler destroys him early.

Lewis might have a size advantage, but when Dempsey starts throwing leather, Lewis ends up getting beat up just like Willard did. Willard, however, had a better chin. This one ends with Lewis out cold on the canvas.
yawn!
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Old 07-19-2007, 10:27 AM   #11
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis and Jack Dempsey: Styles, A Twisted Mirror?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zakman
If guys like McCall and Rahman could take Lewis out, the Manassa Mauler destroys him early.

Lewis might have a size advantage, but when Dempsey starts throwing leather, Lewis ends up getting beat up just like Willard did. Willard, however, had a better chin. This one ends with Lewis out cold on the canvas.
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

oh and try acutally reading posts before you respond?
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Old 07-19-2007, 03:06 PM   #12
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis and Jack Dempsey: Styles, A Twisted Mirror?

Dempsey could've been fairly succesful if he adopted Lewis' style. Fighting tall at Dempseys size may give a few problems, but allround i think he'd do quite well (though not as good as he did with his actual style).

The other way around however, i don't think Lewis would be very good with Dempsey's style. I expect him to turn into a Shavers kind of fighter with more technique; the one that either KO's you or loses by KO. Tall fighters are rarely aggressive sluggers, and for good reason.
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Old 07-19-2007, 05:50 PM   #13
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis and Jack Dempsey: Styles, A Twisted Mirror?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zakman
Dempsey just would have been boring - I don't even want to think about it, really.
Zak, why do you think Dempsey would have been boring? The most conservatice round he boxed is arguably the 1st v Willard - and we got the most notoriously violent round in boxing history.

He may not have been quite as exciting overall, perhaps, but he still promises thrills and spills.
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Old 07-19-2007, 08:28 PM   #14
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis and Jack Dempsey: Styles, A Twisted Mirror?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zakman
If guys like McCall and Rahman could take Lewis out, the Manassa Mauler destroys him early.

Lewis might have a size advantage, but when Dempsey starts throwing leather, Lewis ends up getting beat up just like Willard did. Willard, however, had a better chin. This one ends with Lewis out cold on the canvas.


All you have to do is read Lennox Lewis and immediatly go into a tirade about how he was stopped by McCall and Rahman.
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Old 07-20-2007, 01:51 PM   #15
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Default Re: Lennox Lewis and Jack Dempsey: Styles, A Twisted Mirror?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
Dempsey could've been fairly succesful if he adopted Lewis' style. Fighting tall at Dempseys size may give a few problems, but allround i think he'd do quite well (though not as good as he did with his actual style).
I agree. But I think if he'd adopted it for Willard and post Willard he wouldn't have lost any fights he won, the Firpo fight may have been easier and he may have posed more problems for Tunney. The basic strategy is much more difficult for example.

Quote:
The other way around however, i don't think Lewis would be very good with Dempsey's style. I expect him to turn into a Shavers kind of fighter with more technique; the one that either KO's you or loses by KO. Tall fighters are rarely aggressive sluggers, and for good reason.
Sure. But Lewis is, in my opinion, the most extraordinary big guy. Look to the Grant fight, for a clue, not that i'm suggesting every opponent would behave like Grant - but Lewis did look like he could punch throught a brick wall.
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