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Old 07-18-2007, 07:17 PM   #1
AllyT
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Default Willie Limond was Definately Robbed

A lot has been said about the ‘Long Count’ but I have finally seen a copy of the British Boxing Board Of Control Rules of Boxing that govern Commonwealth contests.
According to the BBBoC rules governing Commonwealth title contests –

32
Should a Boxer go down to the floor as the result of a legitimate blow, the Timekeeper shall count off the seconds strictly in accordance with his watch. The opponent shall retire immediately to the furthest neutral corner and neither Boxer shall resume boxing until ordered to do so by the Referee.

The referees take on the count or the variable count do not apply here. Key words “Timekeeper”, “strictly” and “watch”.

(33) . . . must regain his feet unassisted within ten seconds. The Referee shall not permit a Boxer to continue boxing, if in his opinion he is able to do so, until the expiration of 8 seconds following the knock down.
1. A Boxer failing to continue with a Contest after the intervals specified above shall not be awarded any points for that round but will have 10 points deducted from his score. His opponent shall receive ten points and be declared the winner.

The boxer must be on his feet in the specified time of ten seconds or he loses the bout. There is no ambiguity here, the referee simply failed to implement the rules as they applied to the bout in question.
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Old 07-18-2007, 08:34 PM   #2
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Default Re: Willie Limond was Definately Robbed

Was he **** robbed. Counts like that happen ALL the time. Look how long it took the ref to start counting Castillo against Hatton. There is usually about 2 seconds as the ref sends the man away and turns to start counting. Khan got up and then chose to take the knee....

He won fair and square, but Limond also showed his chin for what it is and I reckon Arthur would do him, and who knows maybe it will happen.
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Old 07-18-2007, 08:38 PM   #3
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Default Re: Willie Limond was Definately Robbed

he wasent robbed
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Old 07-19-2007, 05:21 AM   #4
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Default Re: Willie Limond was Definately Robbed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike
Was he **** robbed. Counts like that happen ALL the time. Look how long it took the ref to start counting Castillo against Hatton. There is usually about 2 seconds as the ref sends the man away and turns to start counting. Khan got up and then chose to take the knee....

He won fair and square, but Limond also showed his chin for what it is and I reckon Arthur would do him, and who knows maybe it will happen.
That bout was not under BBBoC rules

Last edited by AllyT; 07-19-2007 at 05:38 AM.
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Old 07-19-2007, 05:57 AM   #5
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Default Re: Willie Limond was Definately Robbed

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllyT
That bout was not under BBBoC rules
But you get the point surely?
BBBC rules are not really any different from other boxing rules, squinting through the small print does not make much sense. If Khan had been told he could not go back down and take the knee he would have stayed standing. If the ref had started counting immediately he would still have got up before 10.

I can't believe you think Limond was robbed.
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Old 07-19-2007, 07:51 AM   #6
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Default Re: Willie Limond was Definately Robbed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike
But you get the point surely?
BBBC rules are not really any different from other boxing rules, squinting through the small print does not make much sense. If Khan had been told he could not go back down and take the knee he would have stayed standing. If the ref had started counting immediately he would still have got up before 10.

I can't believe you think Limond was robbed.

Well believe it.
I absolutely do not see your point, and frankly I think this type of attitude encourages corruption.

This is not the small print, it is a clear definition of how the count should proceed. There is no other part of the rules that refers to the count. That's it!

Firstly it makes clear that it is the timekeeper not the referee that is responsible for keeping the count the referee is only announcing it.

Secondly it makes it very clear that the period is ten seconds according to the timekeepers watch.

Finally it makes clear that this time limit is to be enforced strictly.

When there is so much BS flying around this and other forums as people make up rules to suit their own argument I think it is a bit odd that I should be criticised for being the only person to take the trouble to find out what the rules are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fluxstuff
actually, i recall the dropping after trying to get up also means you are counted out. Or am i thinking of something else?

I think Willie was just very unlucky and Khan was very fortunate. I've seen terrible counts before. The worst was Benn/Mclellan - that should have been stopped in the first round.
This bout included a Mandatory 8 count and you are correct by dropping at 8 Khaqn showed that he was not ready to continue and the bout should have been stopped at that point. The fact that he failed to rise by 10 and subsequently failed to follow the refs instrucrtions only make this error more glaring.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.
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Old 07-19-2007, 08:13 AM   #7
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Default Re: Willie Limond was Definately Robbed

I dont think he was robbed.
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Old 07-19-2007, 08:16 AM   #8
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Default Re: Willie Limond was Definately Robbed

If it was the other way around Limond would have been stopped so in that sense it's not really fair.
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Old 07-19-2007, 08:29 AM   #9
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Default Re: Willie Limond was Definately Robbed

First of all the count cannot start until the other boxer is in a neutral corner, so that accounts for a delay immediately. Secondly regardless of what it says in regards to a time keeper, NO BBBC fight is EVER governed outside of the refs count.
This is for one very simple reason, the downed fighter is responding to the ref. If the ref reaches 8 and he stands and then the time keeper says I got to ten and so the fight is stopped, it would be bedlam.

A fighter taking a knee will often wait before rising and he directly follows the refs count.

I am not criticising you for starting the thread at all, I just do not agree at all that Limond was robbed.

Here is the knockdown...

BORKED

Now look at which point Limond is sent to the neutral corner, it is around 2-3 seconds after Khan actually hits the canvas with Limond stumbling over him and into the near corner, he is then sent to the neutral corner and the count starts.
Khan takes a knee and then gets up and it is well within 10 seconds. In fact Limond enters the neutral corner at 2:00 and the ref starts counting at just on this point. Khan is rising from his knee at 1:54 and fully stood at 1:53, making the count 7 seconds from the neutral corner necessity.

If we start counting from the moment Khan and Limond tumble down it is exactly 10 seconds, Khan hits the ground at 2:03, but Limond is not even close to being in a neutral corner, and so even by pushing the count to beginning at 2:02 when Limond is in the wrong corner but not stood over Khan the count is still only 9 seconds.
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Old 07-19-2007, 09:11 AM   #10
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Default Re: Willie Limond was Definately Robbed

That ring was small
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Old 07-19-2007, 10:09 AM   #11
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Default Re: Willie Limond was Definately Robbed

I think he was robbed too, Khan was not upright and ready to fight at the point the ref reaches the count of 10...so there's no argument.
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Old 07-19-2007, 10:26 AM   #12
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Default Re: Willie Limond was Definately Robbed

Quote:
Originally Posted by you OUT...SUCKA
I think he was robbed too, Khan was not upright and ready to fight at the point the ref reaches the count of 10...so there's no argument.
Erm...did you watch the video? He is upright with his gloves up at the count of 7. So there is no argument.
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Old 07-19-2007, 10:34 AM   #13
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Default Re: Willie Limond was Definately Robbed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike
Erm...did you watch the video? He is upright with his gloves up at the count of 7. So there is no argument.
and then takes a knee again, and when the ref says ten he is not fully upright or steady. Or am I going crazy here?
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Old 07-19-2007, 10:40 AM   #14
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Default Re: Willie Limond was Definately Robbed

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllyT
Well believe it.
I absolutely do not see your point, and frankly I think this type of attitude encourages corruption.

This is not the small print, it is a clear definition of how the count should proceed. There is no other part of the rules that refers to the count. That's it!

Firstly it makes clear that it is the timekeeper not the referee that is responsible for keeping the count the referee is only announcing it.

Secondly it makes it very clear that the period is ten seconds according to the timekeepers watch.

Finally it makes clear that this time limit is to be enforced strictly.

When there is so much BS flying around this and other forums as people make up rules to suit their own argument I think it is a bit odd that I should be criticised for being the only person to take the trouble to find out what the rules are.



This bout included a Mandatory 8 count and you are correct by dropping at 8 Khaqn showed that he was not ready to continue and the bout should have been stopped at that point. The fact that he failed to rise by 10 and subsequently failed to follow the refs instrucrtions only make this error more glaring.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.
Khan got up right away at that point as I undrestand the Referee instructed him that he cannot continue to box until the count of 8 so he thought he had to stay down till 8 and so he took a knee till the ref. reached a count of 8. I dont see where the contraversy is.
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Old 07-19-2007, 10:42 AM   #15
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Default Re: Willie Limond was Definately Robbed

Quote:
Originally Posted by you OUT...SUCKA
and then takes a knee again, and when the ref says ten he is not fully upright or steady. Or am I going crazy here?
You are indeed going crazy. Limond is sent to the corner with the clock at 2:00 and the count starts, Khan stands up at 1:59 as the ref counts, he takes a knee at 1:55 and stands back up at 1:54 and the ref stops counting at 1:52 and waves him forwards.

IF the ref had started counting before Limond was in the neutral corner at 2:01 he would still have been being waved forwards after 9 seconds. And he was on his feet after 7 seconds from that point.

If refs waved fights off when the fighter was up at 7 from hitting the ground and at 6 from the count starting, we would barely have seen any of the comebacks of recent years.

It is simply not a robbery.
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