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Old 07-19-2007, 12:36 AM   #16
thunder06
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Default Re: Can any of today's guys become the best 147 of all time?

[quote=Caper]Just busting your thunder sacs a little I had to deal with thousands of crying screaming women running down 42nd today so my compassion levels are a bit dry.[/quote]

what do u mean?
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Old 07-19-2007, 12:36 AM   #17
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Default Re: Can any of today's guys become the best 147 of all time?

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Originally Posted by Caper
Just busting your thunder sacs a little I had to deal with thousands of crying screaming women running down 42nd today so my compassion levels are a bit dry.
why?
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Old 07-19-2007, 01:07 AM   #18
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Default Re: Can any of today's guys become the best 147 of all time?

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Originally Posted by thewoo
or at least # 2 behind SRR?

147 is as stacked as it's ever been. Suppose Cotto were to fight and beat DLH, Mosley, Floyd, Williams, Margarito, Cintron, Clotty and Collazo. I know this is a huge if but lets suppose it were to happen or interchange some names with Floyd or williams beating all those other guys.

I am not as knowledgable as some of you other guys in terms of history but I would think that would be an ATG 147 resume no?

If he could I would make him side by side with SRR, but that's not going to happen
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Old 07-19-2007, 08:25 AM   #19
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Default Re: Can any of today's guys become the best 147 of all time?

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Originally Posted by Caper
Please do tell

SRR yes but after that it seems 147lbs has been so staked it has made it difficult to get all the top fighters in the ring to see who still stands once the dust is clear. I have yet to see a fighter beat each and every top WW in their respective eras. Have you?
I assume now that you aren't familiar with Ray Robinson.... Also much tougher division back then. Better schooling, better fighters, tougher guys. And yes, can you imagine Leonard in this division? Hearns? Please-
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Old 07-19-2007, 10:05 AM   #20
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Default Re: Can any of today's guys become the best 147 of all time?

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Originally Posted by thunder06
why?
There was an explosion in the city yesterday
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Old 07-19-2007, 11:14 AM   #21
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Default Re: Can any of today's guys become the best 147 of all time?

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Originally Posted by DaveTheWave
I assume now that you aren't familiar with Ray Robinson.... Also much tougher division back then. Better schooling, better fighters, tougher guys. And yes, can you imagine Leonard in this division? Hearns? Please-
Again.....please do tell

I love how you automatically assume the role of boxing historian/expert without even asking for details.

You still have not answered my previous question, I hold SRR at the top of the list but that can even be questioned because its all a matter of opinion. Ray fought the likes of Armstrong, Lamotta and Kid Gavlin in or around the WW division obviously three ATG's but outside of the fighters mentioned his WW opposition was mostly full of hard nose old school bangers. Hearns, Leonard, Benitez, Duran all incerdible fighters but the thread starter asked if a current WW was to beat Mosely, PBF, Williams, Cintron, Cotto, Collazo, DLH, Clottey, Margo....the list goes on and on without losing could they be considered one of the top WW's ever, yes is the answer. Leonard is close but he lost to Duran so that would take him out of the hypothetical scenerio the author gave us (the fighter would have to go undefeated against the top teir).....

Saying fighters around SRR's time where better fighters with better schooling as well as being built tougher is a matter of opinion not fact. You sound completely bitter how is it that you can gauge the level of toughness in a fighter, have you fought them or any of the men they fought????? Is it me or have fighters actually improved in terms of technique and skill....evolution my friend look the word up.

A wise man once told me "never assume" so being the nice guy that I am I will also pass on the same knowlege "never assume"
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Old 07-19-2007, 11:15 AM   #22
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Default Re: Can any of today's guys become the best 147 of all time?

No. The competition isn't there to warrant a top 5. None of these guys would beat SRR, Leonard, or Hearns. Then you they will have to contend with the likes of Whitaker, Duran, etc...
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Old 07-19-2007, 11:23 AM   #23
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Default Re: Can any of today's guys become the best 147 of all time?

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Originally Posted by SugarRay
No. The competition isn't there to warrant a top 5. None of these guys would beat SRR, Leonard, or Hearns. Then you they will have to cotend with the likes of Whitaker, Duran, etc...
Again you guys need to read the first post on the thread, its asking if a WW was to defeat a strong list of all the top tier fighters in the division, Leonard and Hearns both lost at least once against another top WW when they fought.

Look at the list, to go undefeated against that list must ******t top 5 ATG at WW. If you think otherwise then you are chosing to neglect not only the level of talent in the division but the amount of fighters with champion traits.

Again I'm not comparing any of todays WW's to the likes of Duran, Hearns, SRL, SRR or even armstrong. But you must look at this objectively.......
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Old 07-19-2007, 11:56 AM   #24
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Default Re: Can any of today's guys become the best 147 of all time?

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Originally Posted by CASH_718
If one person clears out the whole division I'd put them #2 behind SRR for sure.


If they then proceed to move up and defeat some middleweight and light heavyweight champions, then we can start talking ATG though. I just don't see that part of it happening.
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Old 07-19-2007, 12:02 PM   #25
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Default Re: Can any of today's guys become the best 147 of all time?

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If they then proceed to move up and defeat some middleweight and light heavyweight champions, then we can start talking ATG though. I just don't see that part of it happening.
That's why SRR stay's up top.
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Old 07-19-2007, 12:15 PM   #26
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Default Re: Can any of today's guys become the best 147 of all time?

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Oh I think that Shane right now has a better shot then both Floyd and Cotto. Keep in mind he already has some really big wins, and all it would take of him would be beatting Floyd and Cotton and maybe one other Cintron or Williams. that would put him about as high as any of these fighters can get.

And the reason that I think that the limit is capped is because some of there guys will be exposed as not great fighters. You have to beat all-timers to be all-timers. While i think that these guys are all very good fighters none of them are great fighters. Robinson and leonard beat all time greats top 20 fighters.
Nah, Mosley doesn't really have a chance. He hasn't done enough in his career up to this point. He beat DLH twice, but only once convincingly. He beat Vargas after every other important fighter had already beat him. He lost twice to Vernon Forrest and Winky Wright, and that is a huge mark. The best in history don't lose their rematches.
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Old 07-19-2007, 12:17 PM   #27
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Default Re: Can any of today's guys become the best 147 of all time?

Every young WW has a chance with the division as it stands now. Hatton, Mosley, Cotto, Cintron, Williams would like, absolutely cement Floyd in the top 5 WW of all time, I think. On the same hand, if Cotto beat Mosley, Floyd, Williams, etc. his stock would rise meteorically in the all time charts. The division is so strong right now that clearing it out means true greatness.

Unfortunately, it's far more likely that one fighter beats 1 or 2 of the others, and another fighter beats 1 or 2 others, and those two winners clash. Beating the guy that beat the guy is less impressive than beating all the guys.
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Old 07-19-2007, 12:28 PM   #28
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Default Re: Can any of today's guys become the best 147 of all time?

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Originally Posted by codeman99998
Every young WW has a chance with the division as it stands now. Hatton, Mosley, Cotto, Cintron, Williams would like, absolutely cement Floyd in the top 5 WW of all time, I think. On the same hand, if Cotto beat Mosley, Floyd, Williams, etc. his stock would rise meteorically in the all time charts. The division is so strong right now that clearing it out means true greatness.

Unfortunately, it's far more likely that one fighter beats 1 or 2 of the others, and another fighter beats 1 or 2 others, and those two winners clash. Beating the guy that beat the guy is less impressive than beating all the guys.
Exactly, its highly unlikely that any fighter actually beats all the top tier guys right now, but if they did you would have consider them a top 5 ATG in the WW division. Some people on here are so self asborded or caught up in there own golden era that they fail to realize the details of the thread. Thanks for making sense.
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Old 07-19-2007, 06:38 PM   #29
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Default Re: Can any of today's guys become the best 147 of all time?

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Originally Posted by codeman99998
Nah, Mosley doesn't really have a chance. He hasn't done enough in his career up to this point. He beat DLH twice, but only once convincingly. He beat Vargas after every other important fighter had already beat him. He lost twice to Vernon Forrest and Winky Wright, and that is a huge mark. The best in history don't lose their rematches.
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Old 07-19-2007, 09:48 PM   #30
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Default Re: Can any of today's guys become the best 147 of all time?

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Originally Posted by Caper
Again you guys need to read the first post on the thread, its asking if a WW was to defeat a strong list of all the top tier fighters in the division, Leonard and Hearns both lost at least once against another top WW when they fought.

Look at the list, to go undefeated against that list must ******t top 5 ATG at WW. If you think otherwise then you are chosing to neglect not only the level of talent in the division but the amount of fighters with champion traits.

Again I'm not comparing any of todays WW's to the likes of Duran, Hearns, SRL, SRR or even armstrong. But you must look at this objectively.......
Yeah, you need to read my post again. The list isn't strong enough to warrant a top 5. In the 90s you had dela Hoya, Trinidad, Whitaker, Mosley, etc..., which is better than that list. But, the current list would still fall short by just a whisker unless of course one of them truly dominates all the others, which I don't see happening. Whilst Leonard and Hearns might have lost I would still favour them over any of these guys. They were fighting legitimate ATGs.
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