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Old 07-19-2007, 04:37 AM   #1
boxingcar
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Default I know this is cliched but anyone can beat Fedor .

Anytime someone asks me "who can beat" that guy , to me , it's a no brainer. ANYONE.

So yeah , it sounds contradictory and plain stupid for knowledgeable MMA fans who've been following this guy's career...

But deep down , WE ALL know that anyone can lose in this sport.
especially in MMA. There's tons and tons of upset in this sport and some would say this is one of MMA's major weakness...Though I doubt it'll be the sport's downfall...

But obviously , it's pretty ****ing difficult to keep a clean record in this sport even when you're fighting "cans".

Simply because unlike other combat sports, there's too many ways to end a fight in mma.
the average guy who's fighting under mma rules has to worry about low , mid, high kicks...jiu jitsu , judo , wrestling , punches , slams , knees , elbows etc...

Fedor's career is almost a miracle. It's like He's the missing link of mma

Fedor keeps on winning because he compensates his weaknesses by outsmarting his opponents. In a nutshell...that's his entire career...

Fedor seems to have little weaknesses because He's good at everything...He's a top fighter in all aspects of the game , however...

If you single out every disciplines...
then Fedor's wrestling is inferior to Barnett's or Randleman's , Lindland's , Couture's and many other "legit" wrestlers...

Fedor's striking is inferior to Crocop's or to guys like Manhoef ,Anderson Silva...

And yes , Fedor's Jiujitsu is also inferior to guys such as Nogueira , Ribeiro , Penn , Kawajiri , Hansen , Aoki etc...

But it doesn't matter because unlike all these guys...He's "great" in all disciplines...He doesn't excel in every aspects of the game but he'll always have this huge advantage...Unlike all of them...He's ready for all situations and he can save his ass and own his opponents because if judo is not working , he'll switch to wrestling and if that's not working , he'll use kickboxing , sambo , jiujitsu or whatever but this is why Fedor has always been so dominant...

He's not just "well rounded"...it goes beyond that...
He's too smart , too prepared , very unpredictable...
add to that a top not stamina...superb balance...and you got Fedor.

He basically reads most of his opponents and tends to be 1 or 2 steps ahead...that's why he's #1 folks.

You can come and say that "this" or "that" fighter is "better" than him in "this or "that" discipline...and it probably is true but never forget that he'll always compensate all his problems ...easily...He's like a top chess player.
He doesn't have a precise gameplan...He constantly changes the gameplan as the fight progresses..

But YES..Fedor can lose against anybody...Maybe he'll lose his next fight , or maybe he'll lose next year..or the year after...or maybe he'll lose in his 40's...or maybe because of a ridiculous "cut" stoppage or a "fluke"...It's mma and no one is invincible.

I think mma has been blessed with the presence of this guy just like Golf is blessed with a champ like Tiger Woods or Tennis with Federer...At one point , basketball also "the" champ (jordan)...at one point , wrestling had Alexander Karelin...There's not gonna be too many guys like Emelianenko in the future and I hope most of you realise that you had the chance to witness this monster in his prime...

Trust me on this...years from now , he'll be concidered as ATG. (he already is)
in the mean time , let's just enjoy it while it lasts..
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Old 07-19-2007, 05:04 AM   #2
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Default Re: I know this is cliched but anyone can beat Fedor .

Well, firstly Fedor doesn't do Jiu-Jitsu. Infact Fedor has never trained a single day in Jiu-jitsu
He does Sambo, and to say that he is 'inferior' is an insult as he's the 6 time defending sambo world champion and considered one of the best sambo practitioners who has ever lived.

You say that his ground game is inferior to people like Nogueira, but he blitzed nogueira in their first fight, Fedor is also much faster on the ground, infact probaly the fastest on the ground in the Heavyweight division.
I would also say that fedors submissions are just as good or even better than big Nogs

Again, as for Fedors striking? ask Crocop. Fedor outstruck him in their fight.

So apart from your glaring mistakes, I do agree with the thrust of your argument. Of course Fedor can be beat, everyone can be beat when wearing 4oz gloves.
One headkick to the head or a hard punch on the tip of Fedors chin would end his reign. But as far as someone 'out-figting' him? No way, not anytime soon. Hes too good and too talented for that.
No one will dominate him, to beat him you will need to go through hell and high water to take his belt from him......
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Old 07-19-2007, 05:31 AM   #3
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Default Re: I know this is cliched but anyone can beat Fedor .

I disagree.
I think Fedor's transitions are so fast and fluid. Nog to me looks very slow and cubersome (compared to Fedor that is)
Fedor can just transition to a submission so fast and sometimes so effortlessly.

I also feel he has a better selection of submissons, he has just as much variety.
Nog the vast majority of the time just uses the armbar and the triangle choke/armbar.

Fedor has everything, Kimura's,armbars,RNC,guillotine.
I mean can anything Nog's done be compared to that armbar Fedor put on Coleman the first time around?
That was ****ing crazy, I've never seen anything like that.
Or how about the armbar on Lindland? I've never seen anything like that either, even Lindland said that he had not seen an armbar implemented like that before.

Fedor just seemed to improvise and make it up on the spot. Incredible.
I still feel Fedor has the best submission game in heavyweight MMA.
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Old 07-19-2007, 06:38 AM   #4
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Default Re: I know this is cliched but anyone can beat Fedor .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
He can be beaten by a certain style of fighter. Either a striker with a great takedown defense, who is better apt at using his hands, unlike Cro Cop. Or a big, strong, wrestling grappler. Someone with good wrestling that could take him down and that Fedor wouldn't be able to sub. Prime examples are a prime Ricco and a prime Mark Kerr. Problem is, Kerr had too many mental problems, and Fedor's intelligence would likely prevail in that one. Ricco would be a good shot in his prime though. Nobody today really seems to be the type.

But a big, strong, wrestling grappler could be the guy to do it. If you guys saw his fight with Arona you'd know what I was talking about. A lot of people think Arona was robbed.
I see your point...but no...
Arona is a can (i know He's a fantastic fighter) , but honestly..by fedor's standards and especially under MMA rules , He'd be nothing but a can against a guy like this.

(in case you're wondering , "rings" is more of a hybrid of mma)
Arona did good under specific rules.
What's even more frightening is that Fedor was STILL dominating Arona under rules which were supposed to give Arona a major advantage.
and the guy still lost...close fight...but not enough...

Yes it was a close fight , but in the end...He still lost. And it's no wonder that the judges didn't even gave the guy a split decision.

Maybe even Lindland would've pulled a better fight under "rings".

I'm sure Fedor would probably have little chances against the likes of Arona , Ricco , Barnett or Kerr under ADCC though.

But again , no one ever said that Fedor was supposed to be an elite wrestler or juijitsu artist...Cause He certainly isn't.

He's at the top of his game in sambo. Jiujitsu isn't a specialty of his even tough he can pretty much nullify bjj artists from submitting him.

As far as Kerr and Ricco are concerned (under MMA rules).
I'd personally say that they're too one dimensional for a guy like this.
but again...like I said in this thread ANYONE has the potential to beat him...And I don't think there's a specific style to beat him...

you just need a guy who'll outsmart him or beat him at his own game or win via cut stoppage...and of course , flukes can't be excluded.)

Look what happened against Fujita. NO ONE can be excluded.
the same can be said even in boxing.
Can you be honest and tell me that you knew Rahman had the potential to beat Lennox?...

I'm not saying a prime lennox couldn't get beaten by anyone , just pointing out "that" type of fighter...

Who would've thought that Sapp had Hoost's number?
Or that Igor Vovchanchyn had Kerr's number?
or that Serra would beat GSP in less than 4 minutes?

As far as Rodriguez is concerned...Well , like I said anyone can beat Emelianenko. And yes , you gotta an interesting point...But again , I don't believe in a specific style...it's mma...

Don't forget that Ricco is the guy who once got KOed by Hoffman & Sylvia. The same who couldn't submit and lost againt Rizzo. (even though Rizzo sucks in the wrestling department)...

Yes , he lost a controversial decision against Nogueira (personally , I thought the fight was boring as hell and should've been declared as a DRAW).

But it's still not the point...
Barnett did a better job than Ricco ever could under mma rules...
(though Ricco clearly defeated Nogueira once in ADCC).

But remember...Mirko Filipovic also , clearly defeated Barnett and was even outwrestling Josh in their 2nd fight.
And Josh is a top notch wrestler , there's no denying that...

And Mirko happens to be the same guy who recently lost against a ****ing BJJ artist! via highkick no less!...and we all know how ****ing superior Mirko is compared to that guy.

It's mma....
and when fedor's gonna lose...chances are..It's gonna be against someone nobody is expecting...

Maybe I'd believe in the "style" theory if fedor was still fighting under "rings" or fighting in ADCC or judo...but He's not...

It's gonna take much more than that...
Look what happened several month ago...Sokoudjou...out of nowhere , KOed Rogerio and Arona....and Soko is supposed to be a ****ing Judoka!... (Hey , speaking or rules and styles...Karo once defeated soko under Judo rules).

but we all know how that shit would end up in a rematch under mma rules.

In conclusion...I'm sticking with my original point...
Fedor is vulnerable and can be defeated by anyone...
the question is how and when...

and IF nobody is gonna outsmart him. Then maybe he'll lose in a rather ridiculous manner (cut stoppage or fluke)...but again , the point is...if anyone asks who can beat him...Personally , I'll always be honest and say that anyone can.
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Old 07-19-2007, 06:57 AM   #5
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Default Re: I know this is cliched but anyone can beat Fedor .

Sweet pea

You're getting confused with how the Japanese judge things and how Americans judge things.

In America you seem to gain points for takedowns and lying on top of someone for long periods of time.
In Japan you get points for making an effort to finish the fight such as punches and submission attempts.

Since Fedor threw alot more punches and attempted more submissions he got the nod.
The Japanese do not take into account takedowns or laying and praying.

For instance in Japan the Sherk-Franca fight would have been alot closer because Franca made more attempts to finish the fight (knees and a few submissions) While Sherk just layed on top of Franca and seemed to have no intention of finishing the fight.

Also in RINGS, if it goes to a third round the third round decides it.
I don't think they were biased for Fedor as both Arona and Fedor were unknowns and it was their 3rd and 4th fight respectively.
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Old 07-19-2007, 10:49 AM   #6
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Default Re: I know this is cliched but anyone can beat Fedor .

A guy with simultaneously world-class boxing and wrestling skills would be able to beat him. Too bad Miller has been dead for over half a century. A great wrestler/ground and pound expert like Kerr would have also managed it, in all probability. Prime Coleman under early rules would have a good shot as well.

Of the guys around today....Arlovski may be able to hit n' run a deathly boring decision, though I wouldn't count on it. Possibly Barnett, but I don't see him having the kind of offense on the ground to finish the job even if he gets Fedor down. IF (huge if) Gonzage blows through Couture like he did Crocop, he may be a guy who can beat Fedor as well.
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Old 07-20-2007, 10:10 AM   #7
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Default Re: I know this is cliched but anyone can beat Fedor .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
When you go to the ground with Nog it's like you're facing an anaconda with the way his grip is and the way he catches you. Fedor is very slick, but his sub game isn't on Nog's level quite, although his natural quickness and balance makes for some amazing transitions and submissions, such as the Coleman armbar.


Fedor unlike Nog looks to finish fights Nog is more of a wait for an opening guy that is the difference. Nog will wait for you to make a mistake, Fedor doesn't do alot of laying around he transitions to different postions and looks for an opening, and when he finds ithe quickly gets into postion and sinks it. Fedor is much more fun to watch.
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Old 07-20-2007, 10:18 AM   #8
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Default Re: I know this is cliched but anyone can beat Fedor .

neither coleman or kerr had the stamina to beat fedor, by the third round they'd be gassed and he'd finish them on the ground.
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