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Old 07-19-2007, 07:47 PM   #1
cross_trainer
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Default Great fighter who SHOULDN'T have been successful

Are there any great fighters in history that you keep asking yourself, "How on earth did THIS guy manage to achieve what he did?" Perhaps the fighter lacks skill, like Foreman or Baer. Maybe he is given to winning with lucky punches, or his opponents seem to slack off in training or in the ring (Vitali vs. Williams and Johnson). Or perhaps his style looks so useless that you can't fathom why his opponent's didn't knock him into next week (Hamed, Marciano, Fitzsimmons).

Let's not include fighters whose fights were fixed repeatedly.

So...I'm listening.
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Old 07-19-2007, 08:02 PM   #2
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Default Re: Great fighter who SHOULDN'T have been successful

Marciano. I love the man, and it's not his fault, he was a tribute to the sport with his work-ethic, but pull away the rug and let the young, tall black fighters out and there goes his '0'.
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Old 07-19-2007, 09:16 PM   #3
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Default Re: Great fighter who SHOULDN'T have been successful

Frazier is up there. He wasnt fast or strong but he trained hard and was as tough as anyone who ever boxed.
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Old 07-19-2007, 09:41 PM   #4
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Default Re: Great fighter who SHOULDN'T have been successful

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shake
Marciano. I love the man, and it's not his fault, he was a tribute to the sport with his work-ethic, but pull away the rug and let the young, tall black fighters out and there goes his '0'.
Marciano was beating the young black fighters on his way up to the contender ranks, which was taking over by the Laynes, Matthews ete. Once he won the title, only 2 of his title fights were against white guys. Marciano was BEATING the top black fighters of his era. Just because there black does not mean they can beat Rocky. Marciano be even money vs any one. And he would have beating Patterson imo. There relly was NO one imo that could have beating Marciano from 1952-1958 guessing he did not retire. I give Liston a good chance when he came on the scene in 58. Because Rocky would be past it, not because Liston was black. Trust me Marciano would have beating many a great black fighter, and be 50 50 vs the likes of Ali base on styles.
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Old 07-19-2007, 10:03 PM   #5
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Default Re: Great fighter who SHOULDN'T have been successful

Ken Norton
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Old 07-19-2007, 11:00 PM   #6
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Default Re: Great fighter who SHOULDN'T have been successful

Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Legend
foreman. he was horrible, no skill, no stamina and overrated power.
i get physically ill when i see people pick him over people like liston, Tyson, Louis, Dempsey, and Marciano when he was nearly ktfo'd by the mediocre ron lyle.
It happens. Fighters have tough fights. You convieniently forgot to mention that he was coming off the traumatic loss to Ali, or the fact that he hadn't faught in a year(execpt for an exhibition). But that doesn't matter, what matters is the fact that he hung in there and eventually knocked out Lyle, and wasn't knocked out himself like Tyson was against Douglas.
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Old 07-19-2007, 11:01 PM   #7
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Default Re: Great fighter who SHOULDN'T have been successful

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Originally Posted by Titan1
Ken Norton
Really? Why do you say that? Kenny was quite the athletic one, and fought in an extremely competitive era.
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Old 07-19-2007, 11:14 PM   #8
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Default Re: Great fighter who SHOULDN'T have been successful

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shake
Marciano. I love the man, and it's not his fault, he was a tribute to the sport with his work-ethic, but pull away the rug and let the young, tall black fighters out and there goes his '0'.
No need for the racist bullshit.
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Old 07-19-2007, 11:14 PM   #9
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Default Re: Great fighter who SHOULDN'T have been successful

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Originally Posted by I Am Legend
Tokyo douglas was a much better fighter than george foreman ever was.
I would have to strongly disagree. Douglas has done absolutely nothing of note except for his demolition of Tyson. He was also in fantastic shape against Tony Tucker, but he was stopped. Douglas was a fine boxer, but he was no George Foreman.
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Old 07-19-2007, 11:18 PM   #10
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Default Re: Great fighter who SHOULDN'T have been successful

Let me say that I love George Foreman, but seriously, how the **** did he manage to achieve all that.
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Old 07-20-2007, 03:15 AM   #11
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Default Re: Great fighter who SHOULDN'T have been successful

Nobody mentioned Ali? Ali was expected to do nothing in the heayweight division when he came on the scene and all of a sudden you see him outclassing Sonny Liston. Then he has a great title run then has the title stripped. He then comes back and again defies the odds winning back the crown from Foreman when he was over the hill.
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Old 07-20-2007, 03:15 AM   #12
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Default Re: Great fighter who SHOULDN'T have been successful



Quote:
Originally Posted by miamite
It happens. Fighters have tough fights. You convieniently forgot to mention that he was coming off the traumatic loss to Ali, or the fact that he hadn't faught in a year(execpt for an exhibition). But that doesn't matter, what matters is the fact that he hung in there and eventually knocked out Lyle, and wasn't knocked out himself like Tyson was against Douglas.
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Old 07-20-2007, 03:21 AM   #13
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Default Re: Great fighter who SHOULDN'T have been successful

CM Clay II, you are obsessed. Its official.

I think the earlier Monzon pick is great. I only have a couple of Monzon fights, but he certainly looks nothing special to me. Slow jab, medium pace right hands - but just so deceptive. He just kept landing his punches.

I am also intrigued by his cold, detached almost psychopathic demeanour.

From the french actor Alain Delon "He was exceptionally strong as a boxer, a kind of beast in a pure, savage state. All his friends knew his final days would be tragic."

A truly amazing fighter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by C. M. Clay II
Nobody mentioned Ali? Ali was expected to do nothing in the heayweight division when he came on the scene and all of a sudden you see him outclassing Sonny Liston. Then he has a great title run then has the title stripped. He then comes back and again defies the odds winning back the crown from Foreman when he was over the hill.
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Old 07-20-2007, 03:45 AM   #14
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Default Re: Great fighter who SHOULDN'T have been successful

Iran "the blade" Barkley.
Let's face it, how many men can claim two legitimate victories over Thomas Hearns? We can make all the excuses we like, but at the end of the day, Barkley was 2-0 against a guy who is probably several hundred positons above him in the p4p stakes. He also managed to break Hearns' nose in the second fight.
He also managed to give Duran one of his toughest fights ever. Okay, it was an 37 year old Duran but Duran looked spectacular that night. The Blade had a career-best performance in that losing effort. He looked so good that night, and rocked Duran to his boots with a hellacious left hook in the 8th.

Barkley was not the most skilled of champions, but he made the most of what he had. When all is said and done, he won titles in three weight divisons, and gave two legends the fight of their lives.
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Old 07-20-2007, 03:48 AM   #15
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Default Re: Great fighter who SHOULDN'T have been successful

Bernard Hopkins. From where he started to where he's at now, he really shouldn't have been successful.
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