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Old 06-08-2008, 05:08 PM   #16
Dempsey1238
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Default Re: How many sub-200 pound champions would Johansson beat?

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Originally Posted by janitor
OK.

Johansens right hand was for my money the best in the history of the heavyweight division and you can never be sure how sombody would react to it (see Johansen Machen).

I do think that Dempsey was a better all round finisher even at the point when he fought Tunney however.

I also think that if the count had been 10 seconds the outcome would have been the same.
It was a good right, but I felt I would rank Marciano's, Dempsey's, and perhaps Louis over Johansens right.
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Old 06-08-2008, 05:16 PM   #17
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Default Re: How many sub-200 pound champions would Johansson beat?

I think Johansson could beat Tunney I was just re watching his fight against Machen man that was a vicious knockout surprised the ref didn't stop it earlier.

For those who haven't seen it.
BORKED
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Old 06-08-2008, 09:11 PM   #18
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Default Re: How many sub-200 pound champions would Johansson beat?

Ingo VS:

Jack Dempsey - Dempsey KO

Gene Tunney - via TKO. Ingo was a slow footed fighter with limted range and footwork, and a very weak left. Tunney would easily out point him, and likely get a TKO Late


Max Schmeling - Schemling is a better boxer, and counter puncher. I'd pick him to win, but I would give Ingo a chance

Jack Sharkey
- If Sharkey at as his best, I think he wins a decsion. If not, I'll go with Ingo via KO. Assume Sharkey is at his best.

James Braddock - I think Ingo by TKO late or decsion.


Joe Louis - Louis via mid round KO. Ingo might score a Kd.

Jersey Joe Walcott - Much like Sharkey, which Walcott shows up.
I think Wlacott wins a UD here.

Ezzard Charles - This fight would be a war! Chalres has the speed and skill edge, Ingo has the power edge. Charels liked to brawl a bit and sometimes had his hands full with light heavies. I think this match would play out a bit liel PAtterson vs Ingo. I'll go with Charels via TKO, but if they fought three time, Ingo is winning one of them.

Rocky Marciano - Marciano via mid roudn Ko. Too strong and tough for Ingo.

Leon Spinks-Ingo via mid roudn KO.


I have Ingo at 2-8
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Old 06-08-2008, 09:39 PM   #19
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Default Re: How many sub-200 pound champions would Johansson beat?

Sharkey and Walcott were two much different fighters mendoza. I would like to go on record saying I think Walcott hit much harder than sharkey, was faster foot and handspeed, in a different league when it came to footwork, was a better boxer, was more durable, and had a much better jab. you can disagree if you want. I do think sharkey was a very good boxer, but he had alot more limitations than walcott did to me.
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Old 06-08-2008, 09:44 PM   #20
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Default Re: How many sub-200 pound champions would Johansson beat?

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Gene Tunney - via TKO. Ingo was a slow footed fighter with limted range and footwork, and a very weak left. Tunney would easily out point him, and likely get a TKO Late

whats your opinion on ingo being likely the biggest fighter tunney ever fought? how do you see tunney doing vs big heavyweights in other eras?
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Old 06-09-2008, 06:18 AM   #21
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Default Re: How many sub-200 pound champions would Johansson beat?

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49
whats your opinion on ingo being likely the biggest fighter tunney ever fought? how do you see tunney doing vs big heavyweights in other eras?
I don't think Ingo was very good. He was a one armed fighter. Small. Not durable. And not fast. Patterson style and lack of durability gave Ingo his chance. I beleive Tunney would easily UD Ingo or TKo him late.

I think Tunney would do fine until the better bigger / faster jabers came around. I do not think Tunney would defeat Ali, Holmes Bowe, Lewis, or Klitschko, but he would make them work.
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Old 06-09-2008, 06:58 AM   #22
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Default Re: How many sub-200 pound champions would Johansson beat?

I don't think Ingo would have been able to deal with Schmeling. Think about it, now we we always, when considering these mythical matchups, have to feature both men at their career best. Max was at top form against Joe Louis, and although he got eaten alive in the 1938 rematch, the feat against 1936 Joe Louis was amazing. Louis was, at that stage, and of course thereafter, a far more dangerous and complete fighter than Ingo, and Max took him apart in'36.; I think Max was too smart and disciplined to let Ingo catch him, and he would have used that effective counter right to the max against Ingo. A stoppage for Schmeling in 8 or 9.
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Old 06-09-2008, 08:20 AM   #23
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Default Re: How many sub-200 pound champions would Johansson beat?

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Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
Thanks. I excluded pre-Johnson champs because the boxing rules they fought under were just so different from modern ones. I excluded Johnson himself because his best stuff was over 200lbs.

Walcott indeed could knock out Ingo. I do think he hit harder than Floyd, but Patterson was much more aggressive. How do you see him fighting Schmeling?

By the way, feel free to discuss the other matches, i just didn't include them on the list, that's all.
No way in hell Walcott hits harder than Floyd.
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Old 06-09-2008, 09:26 AM   #24
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Default Re: How many sub-200 pound champions would Johansson beat?

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Originally Posted by Sister Sledge
No way in hell Walcott hits harder than Floyd.
Have you seen Walcott knocking Charles out cold with a single uppercut? Be the only one to ever hurt Marciano? Put Joe Louis down 3 times? How can you say "no way in hell"? Patterson may be trained by D'Amato, but he's no Tyson. He rarely scored an early knockout and often had to wear his opponent down.
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Old 06-09-2008, 09:42 AM   #25
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Default Re: How many sub-200 pound champions would Johansson beat?

I agree Chris, Many of Walcotts knockouts arnt even on film unfortunetly, but the ones we do have.......He shows flashes of extrordinary power. Most of his fights that he scored knockouts/knockdowns almost all of them were caused by ONLY one punch. Examples are Ray III, Bivins, Maxim II, Gomez, Hatchetman, H Johnson, J Skhor(out cold), Louis 3 times, Marciano, Charles(out cold).

ps Louis was a lot more hurt on that 4th round kd then we thought, he took the 9 count but he almost didnt beat the count. that walcott right hand really came out of nowhere, he was shocked. Louis has amazing recup powers though.
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Old 06-09-2008, 05:55 PM   #26
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Default Re: How many sub-200 pound champions would Johansson beat?

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Originally Posted by Sister Sledge
No way in hell Walcott hits harder than Floyd.
I agree.
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Old 06-09-2008, 06:04 PM   #27
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Default Re: How many sub-200 pound champions would Johansson beat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
Let's make a list here.


Jack Dempsey
Dempsey very likely takes this one by KO. Too much power, handspeed and all that. Johansson has a chance if he lands the right hand early when Jack (ideally, when Jack is in the process of throwing a punch), but i think Dempsey wins most of the time.
Dempsey KO


Gene Tunney
I think Johansson stops him. Tunney's chin at heavyweight is pretty untested - he only fought one heavyweight puncher twice and was nearly out on one occasion. I think Johansson's right catches him sooner or later, without a long count. Tunney probably outboxes him if that doesn't happen, though.
Johansson by KO.


Max Schmeling
This fight is pretty hard to call. Battle of the right hands. Both have relatively weak jaws, but i'd go with Johansson because his right hand is a one-punch bomb whereas Schmeling was more of an attrition puncher.
Johansson by KO

Jack Sharkey
I think Johansson finds Sharkey with a good 1-2 and takes him out somewhere from the middle rounds. Sharkey might be ahead on the cards at that time.
Johansson by KO

James Braddock
Johansson, probably by decision. Braddock was a tough cookie with an iron jaw: if he's going to upset any other champion, it may well be Johansson for the same reasons he beat Baer. However, i think Johansson should be favored here.
Johansson by decision

Joe Louis
Johansson has a puncher's chance, but a pretty limited one. I wouldn't be surprised if Louis destroys Ingo in a single round (like Schmeling II).
Louis by KO

Jersey Joe Walcott
Walcott is the superior boxer in here and carries a pretty big punch too, but probably lacks the aggression to finish things in case he puts Ingo on his seat like he did Louis. Johansson has a punchers chance, but i'd go with Walcott.
Walcott UD

Ezzard Charles
Charles is definitely the more skilled boxer, though he seemed to slug it out often. Similar to the Walcott fight, i think Charles outboxes him (without knocking him down) and winning a hard-fought decision.
Charles UD

Rocky Marciano
Similar to the Baer fight, this is one of those battles that Johansson is not likely to ever win. Marciano might have trouble connecting for a few rounds, but sooner or later he will. And that will be it.
Marciano by KO

Floyd Patterson
We already saw what happened, Patterson won the series by a close 2-1. Johansson did appear to be out of shape in the third fight, which could've gone either way, though.
Patterson by KO

Leon Spinks
Johansson by knockout. Not much explanation needed here i guess.
Johansson by KO



So, all-in-all, that would make his record against them a 5-6.



Edit: Baer and Carnera obviously shouldn't be on the list.
I think Schmeling had a pretty good chin myself,Isee him stopping Ingo.Ingo was one of the weak Champs for me,he flapped his left out as a range finder ,waiting for his opponent to come in so he could counter with his right,Tunney frgot more about tactics that Ingo ever knew ,it wouldnt happen ,and he hit hard enough to drop Ingo whose chin wasnt the sturdiest.Ingo had a great right hand ,poor left hook average hand and foot speed and he wasnt allways is top shape.
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Old 06-09-2008, 06:51 PM   #28
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Default Re: How many sub-200 pound champions would Johansson beat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoza
I agree.

did floyd patterson knock down joe louis 3 times? did he knock down rocky marciano? did he flatten ezzard charles with 1 punch out cold? did he knock out harold johnson?(this was a legitamate knockout. johnson went down in round 2 from a walcott punch injuring his back. he didnt injure himself until after walcott had already floored him).......How exactley did floyd hit harder than walcott. Floyd was a fast sharp puncher, but walcott was very heavy handed.


Walcott is rated higher on Rings top 100 punchers list of all time
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Old 06-09-2008, 07:28 PM   #29
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Default Re: How many sub-200 pound champions would Johansson beat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoza
I don't think Ingo was very good. He was a one armed fighter. Small. Not durable. And not fast. Patterson style and lack of durability gave Ingo his chance. I beleive Tunney would easily UD Ingo or TKo him late.

I think Tunney would do fine until the better bigger / faster jabers came around. I do not think Tunney would defeat Ali, Holmes Bowe, Lewis, or Klitschko, but he would make them work.
A one-armed fighter and not durable--I agree.

Small--Ingo was a decent sized heavyweight for his era at 195 to 200. Nothing like the modern giants but bigger than most champs since the 1880's.

And not fast--He seems pretty fast afoot to me. His mobility was good. Compare him to Machen in that fight. Patterson mentioned that this is what surprised him when he fought Johansson. Patterson would get set to throw a punch and Johansson wouldn't be there. Ingo was no Tunney but he could move some.
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Old 06-09-2008, 10:54 PM   #30
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Default Re: How many sub-200 pound champions would Johansson beat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoza
Ingo VS:

Gene Tunney - via TKO. Ingo was a slow footed fighter with limted range and footwork, and a very weak left. Tunney would easily out point him, and likely get a TKO Late

Funny that in some clips- such as the Machen fight- Ingo actually has rather fast and balanced footwork, circling around Machen to find openings. He's a bit skittish but quicker than I think you give him credit for.
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