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Old 06-08-2008, 04:21 PM   #1
janitor
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Default Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

I genuinely think that he might have been a bigger wasted talent than Max Baer.

The douchebag could do everything. He could box, punch, fight inside outside and in between. He could fight in a number of styles and do all of them well.

He didnt have any technical weakneses on paper.

Muldoon described him as the best fighter in the world from the neck down and that is a fair summary.

If his head had been screwed on the world would have trembled.
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Old 06-08-2008, 05:54 PM   #2
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

I've always thought the same. He could display excellent technical and physical abilities and then just crumble mentally. I would be interested in hearing more anecdotes about him.
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Old 06-08-2008, 07:16 PM   #3
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

What were his mental hang ups anyway, exactly?
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Old 06-08-2008, 07:18 PM   #4
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

I agree that he is feircely underated as a pure talent.

I think that Liston was more technically complete. Tunney was technically better too.
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Old 06-08-2008, 10:21 PM   #5
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
I agree that he is feircely underated as a pure talent.

I think that Liston was more technically complete. Tunney was technically better too.

Tunney better technically too? you mean the way he kept his hands by his waist. Is that what they teach you in your boxing gym you go too for "technical skills"??? just curious cause as an amatuer boxer myself I am taught to keep my hands up by my chin, protect yourself at all times. Tunney is off the charts with his ring intelligence, and throws very straight punches with authority, and his footwork is very developed, but I cant get over someone who holds there hands low and leans back while keeping your gaurd low.


As for Sharkey, I agree with everything you say Ben, but heres what kept sharkey back. He was GOOD at everything, but never great at one particular thing.

Last edited by SuzieQ49; 06-08-2008 at 10:45 PM.
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Old 06-09-2008, 05:08 AM   #6
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzieQ49
Tunney better technically too? you mean the way he kept his hands by his waist.
In fact I meant his near perfect punching form and world class footwork, but if you like, yes, his hand-position, which was considered absolutley correct for his time in a technical sense.
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Old 06-09-2008, 05:16 AM   #7
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

It's funny, great fighers from the HW division tend to show something of a derth of technical excellence in a division where it possibly costs them more dearly to be sloppy than any other. Think of Lewis stumbling off the ropes v Rahman, hands down, face forward, smiling, before he was stopped by that magical right hand.

Identifying technical excellence in this division is not as easy as it is in the top of the MW division (Where Monzon and Hopkins show absolutley world class technical attributes, Hagler isn't that far behind and Robinson, though more rogue technically, has some of the best footwork and technical punching anywhere in boxing) or the WW division for example...why no great HW technicians?

There's Louis, of course.
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Old 06-09-2008, 05:37 AM   #8
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
It's funny, great fighers from the HW division tend to show something of a derth of technical excellence in a division where it possibly costs them more dearly to be sloppy than any other. Think of Lewis stumbling off the ropes v Rahman, hands down, face forward, smiling, before he was stopped by that magical right hand.

Identifying technical excellence in this division is not as easy as it is in the top of the MW division (Where Monzon and Hopkins show absolutley world class technical attributes, Hagler isn't that far behind and Robinson, though more rogue technically, has some of the best footwork and technical punching anywhere in boxing) or the WW division for example...why no great HW technicians?

There's Louis, of course.
Very good point. Having 200+ lbs of muscle in front of you that can take you out with one punch should be as good incentive as any too keep your hands up and not be sloppy.

Except Louis I would name Patterson and Tyson as well drilled boxers. Holyfield was also technically sound, but less tactically so, since he had a penchant to brawl with fighters much bigger and stronger than himself. Norton, in his own awkward way, was pretty technically sound.
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Old 06-09-2008, 05:46 AM   #9
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bokaj
Very good point. Having 200+ lbs of muscle in front of you that can take you out with one punch should be as good incentive as any too keep your hands up and not be sloppy.
Do you think this situation has come about on account of there is a greater emphasis on strength, punch resistance and power in this division? Or do you think it is just considerably more difficult to use proper technique consistantly when you are that big? The division will probably never produce a Juan Manueal Marquez or a Ricardo Lopez or a Bernard Hopkins type ATG...

Quote:
Except Louis I would name Patterson and Tyson as well drilled boxers. Holyfield was also technically sound, but less tactically so, since he had a penchant to brawl with fighters much bigger and stronger than himself. Norton, in his own awkward way, was pretty technically sound.
Tyson is a great subject to discuss in terms of technical ability. On the one hand he has excellent movement and footwork and hand positioning - on the other hand he can be very sloppy with punching. I think it perhaps depended upon who he had in front of him, and, of course, his state of mind.

But I agree he is a better technical boxer than the majority of the great HW champs.
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Old 06-09-2008, 06:28 AM   #10
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champi

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzieQ49
Tunney better technically too? you mean the way he kept his hands by his waist. Is that what they teach you in your boxing gym you go too for "technical skills"??? just curious cause as an amatuer boxer myself I am taught to keep my hands up by my chin, protect yourself at all times. Tunney is off the charts with his ring intelligence, and throws very straight punches with authority, and his footwork is very developed, but I cant get over someone who holds there hands low and leans back while keeping your gaurd low.

As for Sharkey, I agree with everything you say Ben, but heres what kept sharkey back. He was GOOD at everything, but never great at one particular thing.
Some of the hardest guys to hit had low guards, SuzieQ. Corbett, Tunney, and Ali come to mind. Quick feet, lateral agility, quick minds, and quick intercepting hands make them hard to hit from the outside.

Unlike Ali and Corbett, Tunney was a pretty good in-fighter.

As for Jack Sharkey, he has some technical brilliance in this offensive technique. It is written that boxing has eight basic punches, four for the right, and four for the left, and Sharkey could throw them all well.
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Old 06-09-2008, 06:32 AM   #11
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzieQ49
Tunney better technically too? you mean the way he kept his hands by his waist. Is that what they teach you in your boxing gym you go too for "technical skills"??? just curious cause as an amatuer boxer myself I am taught to keep my hands up by my chin, protect yourself at all times. Tunney is off the charts with his ring intelligence, and throws very straight punches with authority, and his footwork is very developed, but I cant get over someone who holds there hands low and leans back while keeping your gaurd low.


As for Sharkey, I agree with everything you say Ben, but heres what kept sharkey back. He was GOOD at everything, but never great at one particular thing.
Sharkey possibly lacked top power ,though his list of kos is misleading.As for carrying your hands low other fighters that did would include Jack Johnson,Jimmy Slattery,Muhammad Ali ,they didnt do too bad.Tunney couldnt have been all that easy to tag as he was only down once .Floyd Patterson kept his hands up at all times ,he was down 20 times,and before you say most of Tunneys opponents were Lhs ,so was he at the time so that evens out.
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Old 06-09-2008, 06:37 AM   #12
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champi

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoza
Some of the hardest guys to hit had low guards, SuzieQ. Corbett, Tunney, and Ali come to mind. Quick feet, lateral agility, quick minds, and quick intercepting hands make them hard to hit from the outside.
This is very true, but in fairness to Q, it doesn't represent technical excellence.

Roy Jones was another one who had wandering hands but was very hard to hit, and near impossible to hit clean.
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Old 06-09-2008, 07:10 AM   #13
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

Jones put his hands up when he was within range where he could be hit, lowering his hands only at long range where reflexes and footwork work better than high guard (blocking the view and making it harder to throw a counter).
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Old 06-09-2008, 07:17 AM   #14
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

Yes but Tunney was not as fast as Jones
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Old 06-09-2008, 07:22 AM   #15
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senya13
Jones put his hands up when he was within range where he could be hit, lowering his hands only at long range where reflexes and footwork work better than high guard (blocking the view and making it harder to throw a counter).
Not always, but it's true what you say. However, even the oldest of old timers would lift their guards when they thought they were going to get punched in the face.
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