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Old 06-09-2008, 07:26 AM   #16
Bokaj
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

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Originally Posted by McGrain
Do you think this situation has come about on account of there is a greater emphasis on strength, punch resistance and power in this division? Or do you think it is just considerably more difficult to use proper technique consistantly when you are that big? The division will probably never produce a Juan Manueal Marquez or a Ricardo Lopez or a Bernard Hopkins type ATG.
Of course, the big guys doeesn't have quite the same coordination as the small guys, and that undoubtly plays a part. Also when you're that big it's more physically demanding to hold you hands up for an entire fight. Therefore it should come as no surprise that the really big boys tend to get sloppy with the guard late in fights, especially if they're tough fights.

But the sheer nonchalance that for example Ali, Lewis and even Holmes could show at times is quite surprising when you consider what's at stake. And these were three of the division's smarters boxer at that.
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Old 06-09-2008, 07:27 AM   #17
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

I wasn't talking about old-timers, but yes, they did put their hands up or used footwork or tried to counter or start their own attack, when coming within hitting range, they weren't standing still with their hands low, they were not stupid, were they.
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Old 06-09-2008, 07:32 AM   #18
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

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Originally Posted by Senya13
they weren't standing still with their hands low, they were not stupid, were they.


You could imagine a fighter like that getting a weird, cult following though.
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Old 06-09-2008, 07:39 AM   #19
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

Fighters like Joe Grim, you mean?
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Old 06-09-2008, 07:51 AM   #20
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

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Originally Posted by Senya13
Fighters like Joe Grim, you mean?

Nice!
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Old 06-09-2008, 09:51 AM   #21
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

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Unlike Ali and Corbett, Tunney was a pretty good in-fighter.

Yes, It can be said these guys had great athleticism, great movement. but technical brilliance, I would say no. Guys like Harold Johnson, that was technical brilliance, he did everything textbook.
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Old 06-09-2008, 09:53 AM   #22
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

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Unlike Ali and Corbett, Tunney was a pretty good in-fighter.
Could you explain a bit more? I never see Tunney engage on the inside. he chooses to clinch, or just plain out circle out of harms way. When on the inside, i have seen him try to flurry out of harms way(albeit against much smaller men), but he never uses an uppercut which is a good punch on the inside.


I like your point about sharkey knowing the 8 basic punches
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Old 06-09-2008, 10:23 AM   #23
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49
Could you explain a bit more? I never see Tunney engage on the inside. he chooses to clinch, or just plain out circle out of harms way. When on the inside, i have seen him try to flurry out of harms way(albeit against much smaller men), but he never uses an uppercut which is a good punch on the inside.


I like your point about sharkey knowing the 8 basic punches
Suzie which fights have you seen where" TUNNEY IS FLURRYING OUT OF HARMS WAY AGAINST MUCH SMALLER MEN"?.Tunney haD 81 fights and enjoyed a weight advantage in 23 of them ,only once at heavyweight did he have a weight advantage 2 1/2 lbs against Gibbons,who are these guys you have seen Tunney fighting who were considerably smaller?Tunney was a good inside fighter Greb said "Gene ruined me inside" Dempsey said the hardest puinch he ever took was a right to the heart in the 7th rd against Tunney "It took all the breath out of me ,I thought I was gonna die"
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Old 06-09-2008, 10:41 AM   #24
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champi

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Originally Posted by Mendoza
Some of the hardest guys to hit had low guards, SuzieQ. Corbett, Tunney, and Ali come to mind. Quick feet, lateral agility, quick minds, and quick intercepting hands make them hard to hit from the outside.

Unlike Ali and Corbett, Tunney was a pretty good in-fighter.

As for Jack Sharkey, he has some technical brilliance in this offensive technique. It is written that boxing has eight basic punches, four for the right, and four for the left, and Sharkey could throw them all well.
I think it would be a real stretch, though, to see Sharkey as anything more than an average puncher when compared to the general run of heavyweight contenders and well below average when compared to champions. He simply was not that big of a puncher.
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Old 06-09-2008, 10:43 AM   #25
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

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Originally Posted by mcvey
Sharkey possibly lacked top power ,though his list of kos is misleading.As for carrying your hands low other fighters that did would include Jack Johnson,Jimmy Slattery,Muhammad Ali ,they didnt do too bad.Tunney couldnt have been all that easy to tag as he was only down once .Floyd Patterson kept his hands up at all times ,he was down 20 times,and before you say most of Tunneys opponents were Lhs ,so was he at the time so that evens out.
Which Tunney opponent, other than Dempsey, would you consider much of a puncher?
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Old 06-09-2008, 10:51 AM   #26
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champi

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Originally Posted by OLD FOGEY
I think it would be a real stretch, though, to see Sharkey as anything more than an average puncher when compared to the general run of heavyweight contenders and well below average when compared to champions. He simply was not that big of a puncher.
Sharkey badly damaged his right hand very early in his career, and was essentially a one armed fighter ever since.
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Old 06-09-2008, 10:54 AM   #27
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champi

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49
Sharkey badly damaged his right hand very early in his career, and was essentially a one armed fighter ever since.
That is still the Sharkey of history and that is the one we have to evaluate, not a hypothetical Sharkey. The one of history was simply not much of a puncher.
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Old 06-09-2008, 10:55 AM   #28
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

No I am agreeing with you Fog. I am saying because sharkey injured his hand early in his career, he was not a puncher. He only scored 15 career knockouts
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Old 06-09-2008, 10:56 AM   #29
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49
No I am agreeing with you Fog. I am saying because sharkey injured his hand early in his career, he was not a puncher. He only scored 15 career knockouts
Okay. Sorry.
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Old 06-09-2008, 11:51 AM   #30
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Default Re: Jack Sharkey is one of the most technicaly complete of all the heavyweight champions

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Originally Posted by McGrain
It's funny, great fighers from the HW division tend to show something of a derth of technical excellence in a division where it possibly costs them more dearly to be sloppy than any other. Think of Lewis stumbling off the ropes v Rahman, hands down, face forward, smiling, before he was stopped by that magical right hand.

Identifying technical excellence in this division is not as easy as it is in the top of the MW division (Where Monzon and Hopkins show absolutley world class technical attributes, Hagler isn't that far behind and Robinson, though more rogue technically, has some of the best footwork and technical punching anywhere in boxing) or the WW division for example...why no great HW technicians?

There's Louis, of course.
Tyson Holyfield and Holmes all showed great technical skills.
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