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Old 06-08-2008, 09:19 PM   #1
MagnificentMatt
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Default What do you all think of Kid Gavilan?

Ive been watching him lately and love to watch him. Pretty exciting, skilled fighter. Didnt seem like he had any amazing natural ability, but he could switch his game up pretty good. That ands the bolo punch, I like how he used it more than Leonard or Ali.. Especially when he turns it over to more of an overhand.
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Old 06-08-2008, 09:25 PM   #2
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Default Re: What do you all think of Kid Gavilan?

What do you mean when you say he didn't have any "amazing natural ability"?

I thought he was extremely FAST of hand/foot, & he completely understood the concept of putting on a good show for the judges & the fans. If there was no Sugar Ray Robinson, Keed may have been regarded as arguably the greatest welterweight ever.

Always saw Leonard as more "Keed" than "Sugar" in certain aspects.
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Old 06-08-2008, 09:30 PM   #3
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Default Re: What do you all think of Kid Gavilan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobudius
What do you mean when you say he didn't have any "amazing natural ability"?

I thought he was extremely FAST of hand/foot, & he completely understood the concept of putting on a good show for the judges & the fans. If there was no Sugar Ray Robinson, Keed may have been regarded as arguably the greatest welterweight ever.

Always saw Leonard as more "Keed" than "Sugar" in certain aspects.
Well i meant amazing, as in...nn the level of Leonard. But I agree that he was more like Gavllan than Robinson.. Gavilan was pretty fast though, but I dont know if I would consider him a fighter with AMAZING speed as in a Jones, Taylor or Camacho.
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Old 06-08-2008, 09:42 PM   #4
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Default Re: What do you all think of Kid Gavilan?

Incredibly gifted physically.
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Old 06-08-2008, 09:45 PM   #5
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Default Re: What do you all think of Kid Gavilan?

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Originally Posted by Manassa
Incredibly gifted physically.
Ok im wrong I guess I wasnt paying enough attention to his physical gifts haha... He does have some rangy ass arms though.
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Old 06-08-2008, 09:59 PM   #6
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Default Re: What do you all think of Kid Gavilan?

If you want to see great Gavilan, see the Hairston, Janiro II, Young, or Buker fights. He was very gifted, great speed, great adaptability, great footwork and more of a defensive fighter than most understand (see the Hairston fight).

Gavilan posessed a solid jab and good inside work. He could fight at distance or in close, could play the role of the boxer or box with pressure-- and of course he also like to counterpunch and trade given his advantages of chin and speed.

His biggest weaknesses were his lack of power and his tendency to rely on his chin a little too much instead of his mobility, a trait that starts in his fights from '53 onward, approximately. If I was better at youtube I would post some prime Gavilan, circa 1948-1951 and am fully confident the footage would change many opinions here on the forum, even amongst classic posters.
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Old 06-08-2008, 11:11 PM   #7
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Default Re: What do you all think of Kid Gavilan?

Great, great fighter. Blazing hand speed, fantastic durability, flashy bolo's, great cunning and brilliant inside. Gave a peak SRR two superb fights and not many, if any in history could have beaten Gav at this time.
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Old 06-09-2008, 03:49 AM   #8
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Default Re: What do you all think of Kid Gavilan?

One of the greatest 147ers, and h2h at his best, right up near the top there aswell
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Old 06-09-2008, 01:40 PM   #9
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Default Re: What do you all think of Kid Gavilan?

Fast, a great boxer, and didn't he have an unorthodox left hook that was hard to get away from?
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Old 06-09-2008, 03:43 PM   #10
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Default Re: What do you all think of Kid Gavilan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnificentMatt
Well i meant amazing, as in...nn the level of Leonard. But I agree that he was more like Gavllan than Robinson.. Gavilan was pretty fast though, but I dont know if I would consider him a fighter with AMAZING speed as in a Jones, Taylor or Camacho.
I think he was just as gifted as Leonard from a physical perspective, albeit in different ways. These two had the art of "flurring at the end of the round to steal it" down pat.

Very few guys have handspeed in the vein of RJJ, Camacho, & etc. But the Keed was able to do things those guys couldn't either-I think he is a terrific example of a guy with tremendous flash before the likes of Ali & the like. There is his third fight with Bratton in its entirety, where he puts on a bit of a "show".

He had great rivalries too, with Bratton, Ike Williams, Billy Graham, Sugar Ray, & etc. Fought a few middles in between-the man loved to fight! Would LOVE to see any accounts of his fights with Eduardo Lausse.

His weaknesses, aside from the ones already mentioned, was his taste of having a grand ol' time at the expense of training.
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Old 06-09-2008, 08:18 PM   #11
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Default Re: What do you all think of Kid Gavilan?

Years ago, I saw a kinescope rebroadcast of his ten rounder with Hector Constance (an unsuccessul attempt to secure his one hundredth win), and it was easy to understand why he was featured dozens of times on early television. His bolo punch played spectacularly well on those early screens, which froze his arm in multiple positions during the wind-up before he delivered it with a loud thud. Against Constance, he frequently initiated exchanges with it, leading with it the way others might use a jab.

Just as the recording technology of his day actually did justice to the voice of Hank Williams, so too did early television make Gavilan's flourishes even more dramatic than they appeared on movie film. (Contrast this with both the movie film and kinescope of the Robinson/LaMotta title fight. The severity of the beating Ray was giving Jake at the end is far more obvious on the movie footage.) Gavilan was very unusual in his ability to look and sound better on early television. Like Gorgeous George, he was perfect for the new medium.

It quickly becomes obvious with Constance that Gavilan did not use his bolo punch to showboat, but very much as a basic tool of his trade, just as Eusebio Pedroza would be doing decades later. (Pedroza really did perfect it though, using it as both a strength sapping body punch and knockout blow. While flashy, Gavilan's bolo punch wasn't quite as deadly as Pedroza's.)

Gavilan was a very worthy charter enshrinee of the IBHOF.
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Old 06-09-2008, 08:31 PM   #12
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Default Re: What do you all think of Kid Gavilan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinxkid
Fast, a great boxer, and didn't he have an unorthodox left hook that was hard to get away from?
Yes and he often lead with it.
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Old 06-09-2008, 08:46 PM   #13
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Default Re: What do you all think of Kid Gavilan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by acb
Yes and he often lead with it.
Thanks for fielding that one, acb. I thought that was how I remembered it.
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Old 06-09-2008, 08:55 PM   #14
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Default Re: What do you all think of Kid Gavilan?

He looks great on film
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Old 06-09-2008, 08:57 PM   #15
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Default Re: What do you all think of Kid Gavilan?

He's too inconsistent, thats what prevented him from being a top 10 p4per. His wins resume however is vastly superior to that of Willie Pep or Pernell Whitaker.
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