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Old 06-09-2008, 09:24 PM   #1
Mendoza
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Default What do Jim Corbett,Tom Sharkey,Jack Root,Tommy Burns, Sam Langford, Jack Johnson

What do Jim Corbett, Tom Sharkey, Jack Root, Tommy Burns, Sam Langford, Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey all agree on?



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Old 06-09-2008, 09:32 PM   #2
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Default Re: What do Jim Corbett,Tom Sharkey,Jack Root,Tommy Burns, Sam Langford, Jack Johnson

He's actually 6th-8th, but cool video. Fighters do indeed hold him in high regard, but it's natural for men to elivate a fighter from his own era to the absolute pinnacle.

How many fights did he fight? Boxrec lists 20.
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Old 06-09-2008, 09:37 PM   #3
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Default Re: What do Jim Corbett,Tom Sharkey,Jack Root,Tommy Burns, Sam Langford, Jack Johnson

Burns ranking of Fitz ahead of Dempsey is a bit of a reach, although it's hard to be sure when the film was made, maybe "that millionare fighter" was still active? I tend to agree with Dempsey that Jeffries would mug him, although i wouldnt' be sure. Surprised to hear Dempsey list Langford third, I would have expected that man to be the first name to Demsey's lips given what he's had to say about the man in the past.
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Old 06-09-2008, 09:40 PM   #4
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Default Re: What do Jim Corbett,Tom Sharkey,Jack Root,Tommy Burns, Sam Langford, Jack Johnson

I remember reading about James Jeffries claimed Jack Johnson would have beaten him even when he was in his prime
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Old 06-09-2008, 09:41 PM   #5
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Default Re: What do Jim Corbett,Tom Sharkey,Jack Root,Tommy Burns, Sam Langford, Jack Johnson

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Originally Posted by McGrain
He's actually 6th-8th, but cool video. Fighters do indeed hold him in high regard, but it's natural for men to elivate a fighter from his own era to the absolute pinnacle.

How many fights did he fight? Boxrec lists 20.
The historians up to 1960 seem to think he was 1, 2, or 3 for the most part.

While fighters of an era might elevate someone they are familiar with, they still have to pick one as the best.

The only clear and up close film on Jeffries in his prime is a training sessions for a 1901 fight with Ruhlin. It is am impressive display of strength, flexibility, atheltetism, and sparring skills. You tube has parts of it, but leaves out some good parts for sure.

It is estimated that Box rec has about 5-10% of all known fights out there. Jeffries on my research KO'd Joe Kennedy in 2 rounds in 1901. It is likely Jeffries has a few un-documented fights, most of them happening before 1900. Author and poster Apollack has a new book coming out on Jeffries. Perhaps he has found some new information.
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Old 06-09-2008, 09:44 PM   #6
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Default Re: What do Jim Corbett,Tom Sharkey,Jack Root,Tommy Burns, Sam Langford, Jack Johnson

I'm looking forward to Pollack's book on Jim, I have been since I read the Corbett one.

I have to say that I too, think that Johnson has a dash of cryptonite about him as far as Jim is concerned, and i've had Jack above Jim ever since I did my first list many years ago. Jeffries has climbed the more i've got into boxing history though.
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Old 06-09-2008, 09:46 PM   #7
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Default Re: What do Jim Corbett,Tom Sharkey,Jack Root,Tommy Burns, Sam Langford, Jack Johnson

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49
I remember reading about James Jeffries claimed Jack Johnson would have beaten him even when he was in his prime
The context of that quote needs to be grounded. Jeffries was a depressed man. He said that so the press would leave him alone after he lost to Johnson. Beleive it or not, many wanted to see a re-match. Jeffries also said he felt he was dupped, and if the fight had taken place when he was younger, it would have been different. That is not what I want to talk about in this thread.

My focus is on the words of the people who knew him best. The fighters, ref's, historians, and promoters of the time.
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Old 06-09-2008, 09:48 PM   #8
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Default Re: What do Jim Corbett,Tom Sharkey,Jack Root,Tommy Burns, Sam Langford, Jack Johnson

Put it this way; I don't thin it is sensible to rank him outside of the top 10. I think doing that is odd. And I say that in the knowledge that there are at least 14 HW's who can justify a place in the ten and that some have to be seen as "interchangeable" that is, can be in or out depending on criteria, etc. Jeffries is not one of those. He must be in the ten.
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Old 06-10-2008, 04:42 AM   #9
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Default Re: What do Jim Corbett,Tom Sharkey,Jack Root,Tommy Burns, Sam Langford, Jack Johnson

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Originally Posted by Mendoza
What do Jim Corbett, Tom Sharkey, Jack Root, Tommy Burns, Sam Langford, Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey all agree on?



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I dont need to see this video ,I know where you are going and Sharkey is on record as saying Johnson was the best he ever saw,and Corbett said Johnson was the greatest boxer he ever saw,and both hated Johnsons guts.
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Old 06-10-2008, 06:15 AM   #10
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Default Re: What do Jim Corbett,Tom Sharkey,Jack Root,Tommy Burns, Sam Langford, Jack Johnson

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Originally Posted by mcvey
I dont need to see this video ,I know where you are going and Sharkey is on record as saying Johnson was the best he ever saw,and Corbett said Johnson was the greatest boxer he ever saw,and both hated Johnsons guts.

Corbett did not rate Johnson over Jeffries. I have his ratings archived more than once. Sharkey said Johnson was great, and yes, he did not like him, but he felt Jeffries was greater.

At any rate, here is a full review of Corbett's opinion:


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Old 06-10-2008, 06:18 AM   #11
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Default Re: What do Jim Corbett,Tom Sharkey,Jack Root,Tommy Burns, Sam Langford, Jack Johnson

Corbett worked closely with Jeffries, he loved Jeffries, he was a Jeffries associate for the Johnson fight. Meanwhile, he hated Jack and was a pronounced and disgusting racist. Perhaps his opinion in this matter is not the most unbiased?
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Old 06-10-2008, 06:21 AM   #12
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Default Re: What do Jim Corbett,Tom Sharkey,Jack Root,Tommy Burns, Sam Langford, Jack Johnson

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Originally Posted by McGrain
Corbett worked closely with Jeffries, he loved Jeffries, he was a Jeffries associate for the Johnson fight. Meanwhile, he hated Jack and was a pronounced and disgusting racist. Perhaps his opinion in this matter is not the most unbiased?
Corbett felt Jackson was 1B, after Jeffries and Jackson was black. Corbett often had fueds with other fighters. He was a bit of a prick. To gain a better insight on what Corbett thought, read the news article I posted.
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Old 06-10-2008, 06:57 AM   #13
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Default Re: What do Jim Corbett,Tom Sharkey,Jack Root,Tommy Burns, Sam Langford, Jack Johnson

It sounds as though Corbett's article was written before Johnson's rise or at least before Johnson-Jeffries. Hardly compelling evidence for ranking Jeffries over Johnson, if this be the case.
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Old 06-10-2008, 07:17 AM   #14
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Default Re: What do Jim Corbett,Tom Sharkey,Jack Root,Tommy Burns, Sam Langford, Jack Johnson

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Originally Posted by Mendoza
What do Jim Corbett, Tom Sharkey, Jack Root, Tommy Burns, Sam Langford, Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey all agree on?



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"Jack Johnson was the greatest of them all,in all round ability he was tops ,and I tell you that honestly ,because I hated the man" Tom Sharkey in an interview."Jack Johnson was the finest boxer of the heavyweights in science and defence" Jim Corbett an an interview given to Nat Fleischer for "The Ring".
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Old 06-10-2008, 07:35 AM   #15
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Default Re: What do Jim Corbett,Tom Sharkey,Jack Root,Tommy Burns, Sam Langford, Jack Johnson

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Originally Posted by Mendoza
What do Jim Corbett, Tom Sharkey, Jack Root, Tommy Burns, Sam Langford, Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey all agree on?



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Jim Jeffries about to depart for home after his aborotive comeback defeat to Jack Johnson,,in answer to a friends condolences,"you could have licked him in your prime Jeff." " No I couldnt have beaten Jack Johnson in a thousand years".Jack Johnson ,in reply to the compliment from Corbett that he was the finest of the heavyweights in science and defence"Thats the nicest thing any one ever said about me Nat,Ive allways considered Corbett the father of modern boxing".Asked to name his toughest opponent Johnson said it was Sam Mcvey.quoted in Denzil Batchelors book. One man who did consistantly pick Jeffries as the best over the years was Jack Dempsey.
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