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Old 06-10-2008, 07:21 PM   #16
SuzieQ49
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Default Re: Which other ATG Heavyweights....

What about Jersey Joe Walcott? he was 37 right when he laid out charles with the most beautiful KO punch ever seen. He was a late bloomer who was very close to 100% still at age 37. I think hes the prime pick.
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Old 06-10-2008, 07:21 PM   #17
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Default Re: Which other ATG Heavyweights....

Quote:
Foreman - looked good destroying the similarly sized Cooney

Wasnt Cooney 100% washed up having not fought in 6 years?
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Old 06-10-2008, 07:23 PM   #18
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Default Re: Which other ATG Heavyweights....

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuncher
I'm not picking all these over him but they stand their chances:

Holyfield - Vitalis style doesnt lean well to an inside fighter who brings allot of pressure and combinations. Vitali hasnt fought anyone of Holys nature and I can also imagine Holy roughing Vitali on the inside with his headbutts

Ali - its ****ing Ali, even if he did have parkinsons he was beating Shavers and Norton

Holmes - how would Vitali cope with that jab?

Walcott - beat Charles at 38, isn't beyond the realms of possibility he'd set traps and counter Vitalis mistakes to edge out a decision

Toney - 2005 37yo Toney was beating Ruiz. Toney is 1 of the greatest defensive fighters and counter punchers ever and may win a decision

Louis - Louis was on a good run and won a few rounds against the Rock

Foreman - looked good destroying the similarly sized Cooney

Jack Johnson - a bag of tricks and frustration for Vitali to contend with

Liston - Just when was he born is the real question????

Wlad Klitchko - not 37 yet, Wlad is the superior skilled Klitchko and the straight rand lands on big bro all night
Decent picks, although i think most would fail.

However, i don't think Toney should be there. Can he even reach Klitschko with a foot height difference and Vitali leaning back with fast reflexes?
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Old 06-10-2008, 07:30 PM   #19
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Default Re: Which other ATG Heavyweights....

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Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
Decent picks, although i think most would fail.

However, i don't think Toney should be there. Can he even reach Klitschko with a foot height difference and Vitali leaning back with fast reflexes?
If we saw Vitali fighting more styles against top guys we'd have a better idea, I give the advantage to Vitali in allot of those, he'd simpl have too much workrate, but Vitali makes lots of mistakes and old crafty fighters will take advantage of this.

Ofcourse Toney can reach Vitali, he wouldnt look to lead, he'd counter with right hands, which you can be sure would land with Vitalis low hands and upright style, he'd slip inside and bang the body. Pity this fight never happened, would have been 50-50 in 2003 and I'd be picking Toney, pity he was so ****ing lazy
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Old 06-10-2008, 08:42 PM   #20
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Default Re: Which other ATG Heavyweights....

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher
If we saw Vitali fighting more styles against top guys we'd have a better idea, I give the advantage to Vitali in allot of those, he'd simpl have too much workrate, but Vitali makes lots of mistakes and old crafty fighters will take advantage of this.

Ofcourse Toney can reach Vitali, he wouldnt look to lead, he'd counter with right hands, which you can be sure would land with Vitalis low hands and upright style, he'd slip inside and bang the body. Pity this fight never happened, would have been 50-50 in 2003 and I'd be picking Toney, pity he was so ****ing lazy
Toney vs Vitali 50/50?? The Toney who had a war with a past his prime Jirov is 50/50 vs Vitali? The Toney who lost to Sam Peter on points 50/50 vs Vitali? I don't think Toney has much of a chance here.
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Old 06-10-2008, 10:29 PM   #21
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Default Re: Which other ATG Heavyweights....

I am suprised no one mentioned walcott. Walcott was better at 37 than Toney was..and in much better shape.
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Old 06-10-2008, 10:31 PM   #22
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Default Re: Which other ATG Heavyweights....

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The Toney who had a war with a past his prime Jirov is 50/50 vs Vitali? The Toney who lost to Sam Peter on points 50/50 vs Vitali?

Toney was 190lb vs Jirov, were takin the 217lb toney who fought holyfield here.


Toney boxed peters ears off in the first fight, I had it 116-111 toney.......many ringsiders including harold lederman thought toney won the first peter fight. peter ate counter right hands all night. Btw is peter that bad? he nearly knocked out wladimir klitschko flooring him 3 times on a near TKO victory. Vitali has never proven he could beat a boxer calibre of toney, so we dont know what would happen
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Old 06-10-2008, 10:50 PM   #23
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Default Re: Which other ATG Heavyweights....

Holmes is the only other one I can think of. Holmes would still have an edge in hand speed, still punched more accurately, and could sustain a high enough output over the course of 12 rounds. I like Holmes by decision.

I really don't see any of the others standing much of a chance. Most are too small to be successful at that stage of their careers. The ones that are not to small, like Foreman, would probably get outworked.
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Old 06-10-2008, 10:59 PM   #24
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Default Re: Which other ATG Heavyweights....

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Most are too small to be successful at that stage of their careers.
Walcott? he was no smaller than chris bryd, who vitali failed to floor and lost too. I dont think people are giving him a fair shot here. Lets be real, Vitali didnt exactley prove himself that he was some unbeatable giant. I hate to bring up the subject, but vitali was a steroid user. Does this play into factor here? do we allow walcott to take advantage of modern supplements/technology?
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Old 06-10-2008, 11:18 PM   #25
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Default Re: Which other ATG Heavyweights....

Vitali was beating a young Chris Byrd, and quit. He was really too big for Chris. I'm willing to bet Vitali would win 2 out of 3. No way of proving it though. I'd honestly give a 37 year old Corrie Sanders a better chance than Walcott.

I didn't say Vitali was an unbeatable giant. He was, however, a giant that was hard to beat. Espeacially for a 37 year old.
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Old 06-10-2008, 11:53 PM   #26
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Default Re: Which other ATG Heavyweights....

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I'd honestly give a 37 year old Corrie Sanders a better chance than Walcott.

A unranked heavyweight the majority of his career over a hall of fame heavyweight?
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Old 06-11-2008, 03:28 AM   #27
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Default Re: Which other ATG Heavyweights....

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzieQ49
A unranked heavyweight the majority of his career over a hall of fame heavyweight?
...With a hammer for a left hand. It's not impossible. To be honest though, the list of decent candidates is pretty short.
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Old 06-11-2008, 04:44 AM   #28
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Default Re: Which other ATG Heavyweights....

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

Ofcourse Toney can reach Vitali, he wouldnt look to lead, he'd counter with right hands, which you can be sure would land with Vitalis low hands and upright style, he'd slip inside and bang the body. Pity this fight never happened, would have been 50-50 in 2003 and I'd be picking Toney, pity he was so ****ing lazy
I think you're over-estimating Toney's chances a bit here... he drew with Rahman (most had him losing, despite being public's favorite), he had one close fight with Peter and one shutout loss to a better trained Peter, a win over Holyfield who was shot and steroid NC against Ruiz.

Thing is, Toney couldn't throw more than 30 punches a round and always lost rounds to active fighters for that reason. Rahman simply outworked him. Vitali is known for throwing 50-60 punches a round: Toney is going to have severe trouble doing enough.
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Old 06-11-2008, 05:33 AM   #29
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Default Re: Which other ATG Heavyweights....

This is a good thread. Aside from those mentioned, what about Archie Moore, he would be a better chance than Toney?
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Old 06-11-2008, 06:14 AM   #30
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Default Re: Which other ATG Heavyweights....

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49
Walcott? he was no smaller than chris bryd, who vitali failed to floor and lost too. I dont think people are giving him a fair shot here. Lets be real, Vitali didnt exactley prove himself that he was some unbeatable giant. I hate to bring up the subject, but vitali was a steroid user. Does this play into factor here? do we allow walcott to take advantage of modern supplements/technology?
Vitali tested clean in all his pro fights SuzieQ. As an outsider looking in for most of his career, Vitali needed to be even cleaner than the next guy. The Vitali vs Byrd fight was on the level, the same as his other fights.

Wlacott and his lack of durability would cost him big time vs Vitlai.
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