What is the TRUE lineage of the heavyweight title

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by pmfan

Corbett went 61 gloved (presumably 3-minute) competitive rounds with Jackson at Jackson's prime, so Corbett was obviously a really good fighter regardless of the circumstances of the time.

I quite agree ,the fact that Jackson was nursing a sprained ankle and the affects of flue suggest that he was a bit useful too.Which is why Sullivan didnt meet him!

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by pmfan

Corbett went 61 gloved (presumably 3-minute) competitive rounds with Jackson at Jackson's prime, so Corbett was obviously a really good fighter regardless of the circumstances of the time.

You will ,of course notice that Corbett never went near Jackson again ,even thought the West Indian was slightly past his best,due to drink.

[janitor]

Originally Posted by mcvey

There are those who say it should start from when Blacks had the opportunity to challenge for the title ,seems only fair really ,but we cant wipe out what history occured before it.

We are not here to rewrite history gentlemen.

We are merely tracing the lineage of the heavyweight title based on the fights that actualy took place, and we acept the oficial verdict for each fight even if we disagree with it.

Even at that it is quite complicated enough.

I doubt that you could suport the presently accepted lineage without being inconsistent somwhere.

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by janitor

We are not here to rewrite history gentlemen.

We are merely tracing the lineage of the heavyweight title based on the fights that actualy took place, and we acept the oficial verdict for each fight even if we disagree with it.

Even at that it is quite complicated enough.

I doubt that you could suport the presently accepted lineage without being inconsistent somwhere.

I think I said that in two posts!

[pmfan]

Originally Posted by mcvey

You will ,of course notice that Corbett never went near Jackson again ,even thought the West Indian was slightly past his best,due to drink.

Maybe so, but he was the top black heavyweight and Corbett was at least close to his equal. Which means the heavyweight championships of those days aren't meaningless. Corbett obviously really was one of the best heavyweights of his time, regardless of ethnicity.

Of course I agree that he should have given Jackson a title match later.

[OLD FOGEY]

The Ring Magazine had an article on the championship back in the sixties and their conclusion was that Jeffries was the first true world champion due to his wins over both Jackson and Fitzsimmons.

I remember the very old issues of the Encyclopedias which they kept at the library listed Jeffries as champion from 1899-1910 and Johnson as champion only from 1910 to 1915, leaving Hart and Burns out. I don't think Hart had much of a claim. Burns' claim came from traveling around and defeating the regional champions. Johnson clearly becomes champion by defeating everyone.

[BritInvasion]

The British Boxing Board of Control Year Book lists all claims to the title, and they consider Corbett as the first accorded by universal recognition, followed by Fitz then Jeffries. From 1902, no claim is fully recognised, but they list Johnson as universal from 1908 after beating Burns, rather than 1910 against Jeffries. Interestingly they do not consider Johnson 'universal' after 1909 following Langford's 'coloured title' claim and Johnson's unwilling to fight Langford. This leaves an unsatisfactory scenario where there is no recognised universal claim until Tunney in 1926.

[TBooze]

Originally Posted by BritInvasion

The British Boxing Board of Control Year Book lists all claims to the title, and they consider Corbett as the first accorded by universal recognition, followed by Fitz then Jeffries. From 1902, no claim is fully recognised, but they list Johnson as universal from 1908 after beating Burns, rather than 1910 against Jeffries. Interestingly they do not consider Johnson 'universal' after 1909 following Langford's 'coloured title' claim and Johnson's unwilling to fight Langford. This leaves an unsatisfactory scenario where there is no recognised universal claim until Tunney in 1926.

The coloured title was still going in 1926... thus no true universal claim can be made by Tunney.

Boxing was never truly unifed in recognizing a World Champion until Louis banged our heads together and pretty much took race out the equation with his dignifed reign.

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by TBooze

The coloured title was still going in 1926... thus no true universal claim can be made by Tunney.

Boxing was never truly unifed in recognizing a World Champion until Louis banged our heads together and pretty much took race out the equation with his dignifed reign.

A reign that included only two black challenges in 25 defences.

[TBooze]

Originally Posted by mcvey

A reign that included only two black challenges in 25 defences.

Yes, and yet that still makes him fighting at least a 100% more black challengers than any other champion on the Corbett-Tunney line.