Larry Holmes Latest Remarks, ALI, Lewis,Frazier..

[sthomas]

Originally Posted by Bill1234

Larry had a torn bicep muscle in the Norton fight, and the Holmes of 85 and 86 wasn't near as good as the Norton of 78. The Norton of the Holmes fight was barely worse than the Norton of the Ali fights. You'd never guess he was 34 if you didn't know his age going into that fight.

That's the first I've heard about the torn bicep (I've got one too by the way). All I hear is how great a fight it was. Norton was old, he barely beat Young for the title, was smashed by Foreman 4 years prior, had the 3 fights with Ali, and got KO'd by Shaver's in 1 round 9 months after losing to Holmes. Norton probably looks 34 right now, a great build does not mean you are not old. Many credit Holmes for beating the likes of Ray Mercer several years after losing to Spinks.

Again, how many alltime greats did Holmes beat when they were prime or even close to prime?

[JohnThomas1]

Originally Posted by Bill1234

I'm not so sure Foreman would catch up to him. Prime Larry could dance all night long and keep moving.

He'd slow down at some point, or points. Whether Foreman could catch him early or have enough in the tank to be dangerous later is another thing tho.

[Bill1234]

Originally Posted by sthomas

That's the first I've heard about the torn bicep (I've got one too by the way). All I hear is how great a fight it was. Norton was old, he barely beat Young for the title, was smashed by Foreman 4 years prior, had the 3 fights with Ali, and got KO'd by Shaver's in 1 round 9 months after losing to Holmes. Norton probably looks 34 right now, a great build does not mean you are not old. Many credit Holmes for beating the likes of Ray Mercer several years after losing to Spinks.

Again, how many alltime greats did Holmes beat when they were prime or even close to prime?

That's the first you've heard of the torn muscle? It's pretty commonly said regarding the fight. Larry tore his becep a week before the fight, and he didn't let the media know. In the gym when the media was there he would just move around, making it look like he was working on footwork, then after they were gone he would really do his best to work on the left. Watching the fight with Holmes, having know idea how old Norton was, you'd think he was still in his prime. A lot of times fighters have that one last great performance left in them. That was the one for Norton, just as Cooney was the last prime Holmes performance.

[AnthonyJ74]

Originally Posted by Bill1234

That's the first you've heard of the torn muscle? It's pretty commonly said regarding the fight. Larry tore his becep a week before the fight, and he didn't let the media know. In the gym when the media was there he would just move around, making it look like he was working on footwork, then after they were gone he would really do his best to work on the left. Watching the fight with Holmes, having know idea how old Norton was, you'd think he was still in his prime. A lot of times fighters have that one last great performance left in them. That was the one for Norton, just as Cooney was the last prime Holmes performance.

In all fairness to Holmes, I thought he beat Norton by more than just a point or two. It was a close fight, but I think Holmes did more than enough to win.

But I'm sure the 1973 version of Norton, or even the Yankee Stadium version of Norton that fought Ali, would have given Holmes an even tougher time.

[Bill1234]

Originally Posted by AnthonyJ74

In all fairness to Holmes, I thought he beat Norton by more than just a point or two. It was a close fight, but I think Holmes did more than enough to win.

But I'm sure the 1973 version of Norton, or even the Yankee Stadium version of Norton that fought Ali, would have given Holmes an even tougher time.

I thought he edged it by 2 rounds. But I thought Norton won the 15th round, I don't go for that stealing a round thing. Norton got the better of Holmes for the first minute and a half of the round, it was even another 30 seconds or so, then Holmes won big the last 30 seconds. No knockdown, so IMO Norton still won the round.

[AnthonyJ74]

Originally Posted by Bill1234

I thought he edged it by 2 rounds. But I thought Norton won the 15th round, I don't go for that stealing a round thing. Norton got the better of Holmes for the first minute and a half of the round, it was even another 30 seconds or so, then Holmes won big the last 30 seconds. No knockdown, so IMO Norton still won the round.

Holmes stunned Norton pretty good in the closing seconds of the round with that monstrous uppercut. Norton buckled and appeared to be quite buzzed. And Holmes landed some pretty big shots on Norton earlier in the round as well. Of course, Norton landed some big punches on Holmes in the 15th round, but I think Larry did more damage overall.

[Stoic]

Originally Posted by spion

Looking back over Larry's career I understand his anger. First of all he was not as verbally gifted as say Ali, having dropped out of school in seventh grade to help out his family. Holmes never had the Olympic credentials that offer exposure and the ability to generate decent cash when beginning a pro career. Larry began on undercards for little cash and usually held a full time job on the side. After toiling away in the division he becomes HW champion at the end of the Ali era and people are searching for another likeable, talkative champ to fill the void left my Muhammad. Larry was not that guy, instead the people took to Ray Leonard and others. Larry didn't do himself any favors by beating "The Greatest" in a one sided affair either, though Holmes himself did not want that match. Holmes defended his title for seven and a half years and at nearly every fight people rooted for his opponent. Norton(for the title), Shavers, Cooney, etc.. Often times Holmes, enraged by the lack of respect and attention he was given would erupt. People would be outraged and the press would eat it up and label Larry a poor sport. Holmes had no way to win in his position as he saw it. He was the Rodney Dangerfiled of the champions. He had great talent, courage and championship heart but he never captivated the media which manipulates the audiences feelings about individuals. To this day headlines scream "Holmes kicked out of Hall of Fame" and such. They still love to justify their stories that Holmes is a jerk, he is bitter. The reality is much different though and those who actually know Larry know the REAL story. Aside from being married to the same woman for nearly thirty years and a family man one never heard of Holmes in trouble with the law for drugs, DUI, assault or womanizing etc.. He donates his time and money to charities and is generous with friends and family. He worked hard at his job and held the title for seven and one half years and then came out of retirement to fight till age 52 and still could have beaten top ten fighters even at that age!

From a personal point of view I know Larry to be one of the funniest, most sincere and generous men I have met. Always willing to help out without asking for anything in return. Sure he may pop off once in a while and the press might point to his statements and shout to us "hey look what an ass this guy is" but MUCH is taken out of context. Larry does say what he is feeling and he is always telling things as he honestly sees it. Some things Larry says we don't want to accept and it is easy to just call Holmes an ass or a jerk as has been promoted by the media which is a shame because listening to Larry you find out a lot of truth in his words.

Well said and spot on! Because of his traumatic upbringing, racial tensions and all--and the fact that he had little schooling-- he makes bizarre comments that he really doesn't mean--the man would surprise you if you met him in person. I never have, but I just feel like he's a kind and caring person.
But don't get him in front of a camera.
He's hard to understand.

[Bill1234]

Originally Posted by AnthonyJ74

Holmes stunned Norton pretty good in the closing seconds of the round with that monstrous uppercut. Norton buckled and appeared to be quite buzzed. And Holmes landed some pretty big shots on Norton earlier in the round as well. Of course, Norton landed some big punches on Holmes in the 15th round, but I think Larry did more damage overall.

Yeah, it was the uppercut that had Norton reeling, but Norton also knocked Holmes's mouth peice flying with one as well. It's pretty obvious why it's known as one of the, if not the greatest 15th rounds of all time.

[Bill1234]

Originally Posted by Stoic

Well said and spot on! Because of his traumatic upbringing, racial tensions and all--and the fact that he had little schooling-- he makes bizarre comments that he really doesn't mean--the man would surprise you if you met him in person. I never have, but I just feel like he's a kind and caring person.
But don't get him in front of a camera.
He's hard to understand.

Exactly, that's when he makes some of his comments that are bizzare.

[Unforgiven]

I dont see why Holmes's comments attract such negative responses from people here.

Personally I think it's refreshing to see an old champion from the 70s and 80s actually having something to say about boxing and boxers of today and the past.

It's funny how everyone on this forum exercises their right to say who beats who on a daily basis, but when Holmes says he'd whip 'em all he's castigated for being "bitter" and "disrespectful".

Personally I dont think Holmes was as good as he thinks he was, but he's entitled to his opinions.
Just because he reckons Lewis and Holyfield are ordinary fighters and says so in no uncertain terms, doesn't mean he's "sad", "bitter", "twisted" or whatever. He's just talking boxing, and he has his own way of saying things. I think many people here are over-reacting to his statements.

[JohnThomas1]

Originally Posted by Unforgiven

I dont see why Holmes's comments attract such negative responses from people here.

Personally I think it's refreshing to see an old champion from the 70s and 80s actually having something to say about boxing and boxers of today and the past.

It's funny how everyone on this forum exercises their right to say who beats who on a daily basis, but when Holmes says he'd whip 'em all he's castigated for being "bitter" and "disrespectful".

Personally I dont think Holmes was as good as he thinks he was, but he's entitled to his opinions.
Just because he reckons Lewis and Holyfield are ordinary fighters and says so in no uncertain terms, doesn't mean he's "sad", "bitter", "twisted" or whatever. He's just talking boxing, and he has his own way of saying things. I think many people here are over-reacting to his statements.

Holmes is often bitterness and disrespectfulness personified, let us be honest. Time and time again he has made classless public comments. His public persona is impossible to defend.