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Old 06-30-2008, 12:46 AM   #1
redrooster
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Default Why Ray Leonr isn't a true legend

For one thing he ducked too many fighters and rematches.

It's ridiculous to say Ray Leonard should rank over the likes of Monzon. It's downright crazy if you ask me. But this is one of the crazy things I saw mentioned on an earlier thread until I shot it down.

He might rank over J.C. Chavez but Monzon had way too much going for him in comparison, being unbeaten for 13 years straight, never having lost a title fight. And most of his fights weren't close disputed bouts like Leonard's were.

Not only that but Carlos made 14 straight defenses compared with Leonard's meager three.

I'm sorry but it's no contest.

For leonard to accomplish this he would have to rule the 80s more convincingly than Monzon ruled the 1970's.

How would he accomplish this?

For starters he would have to meet and beat the best fighter out there-Marvin Hagler.

But in reality leonard can never say he faced Hagler in his prime. So it's like he never fought Marvin Hagler at all just as Larry Holmes never really faced Muhammud Ali.

IF Leonard defeated Marvin, say around springtime or summer 1983, this would be a huge step in his quest for greatness. But he would need more.

He'd then have to defeat prime Hitman Hearns. THis would be close to impossible because Tommy was just hitting his stride and bent on avenging his lone loss. This made Thomas very dangerous opponent for Leonard.

I believe it is more likely to see Tommy knocking Leonard out, say around 1984.

Even if Leonard somehow managed the impossible, he would still have to meet and beat new challenges such as Davey Moore, John Mugabi and new WBA champ Mike McCallum.

This would greatly enhance his image as a fighting champion who took on all comers.

Do I think he could pull all this off? Frankly, no I don't. He'd either have to knock out Thomas or outpoint him and we know he's not going to do that. The problems he faced with Howard I think woke up the public regarding how limited he really was. A win over Hearns or Hagler was not realistic at all.

But let's just say he did, what would be next? To remove all doubt and put a lock on the decade he'd once more have to move up to meet new IBF middleweight champ Micheal Nunn, fresh off a one round KO over ex-middleweight boss Sumbu Kalambay.

All Leonard needs are victories over all these notable fighters, young and in thier primes. What Leonard actually (1979-1981) achieved is a nice beginnings of a career but hardly enough to lable him fighter of the decade much less a legend.
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Old 06-30-2008, 12:57 AM   #2
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Default Re: Why Ray Leonr isn't a true legend

Leonard was great businessman who cherry-picked just as another fighter
we know today.

Your scenerio is correct, IMO. But do give him a little slack due to his eye injury that came at the wrong time. From that point on it was smoke and mirrors.
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Old 06-30-2008, 12:59 AM   #3
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Default Re: Why Ray Leonr isn't a true legend

Hi Longhorne, great to hear from you again.
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Old 06-30-2008, 01:08 AM   #4
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Default Re: Why Ray Leonr isn't a true legend

Quote:
Originally Posted by redrooster
Hi Longhorne, great to hear from you again.
The Longhorn Texan has been in Arizona for
5 days in Tuscon.

Two helicopters just crashed into each other up near Phoenix...some people got killed.

I should be back into boxing once I get back to Big D.

I am in a Holiday Inn this evening soaking
down a few beers.
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Old 06-30-2008, 02:14 AM   #5
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Default Re: Why Ray Leonr isn't a true legend

Well he certainly beat much better fighters, ducked less fighters, and won big fights with greater conviction (and without drug-cheating) than your boy Roid Jones Jnr.
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Old 06-30-2008, 03:37 AM   #6
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Default Re: Why Ray Leonr isn't a true legend

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Originally Posted by Sizzle
Well he certainly beat much better fighters, ducked less fighters, and won big fights with greater conviction (and without drug-cheating) than your boy Roid Jones Jnr.
What? Leonard admitted himself he was a coke head....

A nasty, nasty man with very few redeemable qualities. He was the finest fighter of the 80s, but there was a lot more classier fighters around in the era IMO.
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Old 06-30-2008, 04:09 AM   #7
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Default Re: Why Ray Leonr isn't a true legend

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Originally Posted by Sizzle
Well he certainly beat much better fighters, ducked less fighters, and won big fights with greater conviction (and without drug-cheating) than your boy Roid Jones Jnr.
What exactly do you mean 'greater conviction'? Are you saying Leonard won big fights with less effort? Because every time I looked, Leonard needed the help of the judges while Roy beat the two biggest names of his time no sweat.
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Old 06-30-2008, 04:13 AM   #8
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Default Re: Why Ray Leonr isn't a true legend

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Originally Posted by Sizzle
Well he certainly beat much better fighters, ducked less fighters, and won big fights with greater conviction (and without drug-cheating) than your boy Roid Jones Jnr.
Roy never ducked any fighter and granted quick rematches. Just look at the Tarver fights 1,2,3. It took leonard the end of the decade, 9 years to be exact to give Roberto one and 8 years for a rematch with a sorry looking ex-hitman.

Leonard ducked Hagler, Hearns, and even Pryor, not to mention Nunn.
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Old 06-30-2008, 08:05 AM   #9
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Default Re: Why Ray Leonr isn't a true legend

Quote:
Originally Posted by redrooster
Roy never ducked any fighter and granted quick rematches. Just look at the Tarver fights 1,2,3. It took leonard the end of the decade, 9 years to be exact to give Roberto one and 8 years for a rematch with a sorry looking ex-hitman.

Leonard ducked Hagler, Hearns, and even Pryor, not to mention Nunn.
Leonard immediately gave Duran a rematch. It took 9 years for their 3rd encounter. Hagler? Nunn? Those were middleweights. Ray Leonard was a welterweight. How is someone ducking fighters two division above them? I guess Terry Norris ducked James Toney and Michael Nunn as well.

Benitez, Duran, Hearns, Hagler; De la Hoya and Mayweather wish they had Leonard's resume.
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Old 06-30-2008, 09:37 AM   #10
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Default Re: Why Ray Leonr isn't a true legend

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Originally Posted by rekcutnevets
Leonard immediately gave Duran a rematch. It took 9 years for their 3rd encounter. Hagler? Nunn? Those were middleweights. Ray Leonard was a welterweight. How is someone ducking fighters two division above them? I guess Terry Norris ducked James Toney and Michael Nunn as well.

Benitez, Duran, Hearns, Hagler; De la Hoya and Mayweather wish they had Leonard's resume.
You speak common sense my friend!

Im not a fan of your last sentence though! Kidding, Duran's my guy though.
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Old 06-30-2008, 10:22 AM   #11
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Default Re: Why Ray Leonr isn't a true legend

Quote:
Originally Posted by teeto
You speak common sense my friend!

Im not a fan of your last sentence though! Kidding, Duran's my guy though.
Don't listen to him recutnevets. He knows you're lying as I do. Norris proved how overrated he is.

No legend lets a 3-1 underdog do what Norris did and then lets him get away with it. But Leonard true to his cowardly form not only let him beat the crap out of him, he never bothered to ask him for a rematch to avenge his loss. Instead he retired as usual when the going got rough.

Teeto, we all know Leonard could never beat Duran in shape, only out of shape as it says in the article by Randy Gordon. Leonard doesn't have Duran's resume. Instead he just has a couple of name fighters with a couple of washed up fighters.

Try to imagine Leonard jumping 2,3,4 weight classes past the age of 30 and competing with larger men the way Duran did. Look at the trouble Ray had with Norris and you'll see Leonard was no Duran.
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Old 06-30-2008, 10:28 AM   #12
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Default Re: Why Ray Leonr isn't a true legend

My favorite moment at Madison Square Garden was seeing Duran win his third title vs. the favorite Moore. Just when everyone thought Roberto was finished.

My second favorite moment was when Terry Norris set himself apart as a legend in the making and humiliated Sugar Ray Leonard in the process.

The Garden was a great place! Let's hope they never tear it down.

My 3 favorite moment was watching Hagler tear Hamsho into pieces to the approval of all us Hagler fans.
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Old 06-30-2008, 10:41 AM   #13
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Default Re: Why Ray Leonr isn't a true legend

Deep down Leonard is roosters favourite fighter, and he knows it. Years of hollow bashing his career can't hide the truth.
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Old 06-30-2008, 10:47 AM   #14
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Default Re: Why Ray Leonr isn't a true legend

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Originally Posted by Holmes' Jab
Deep down Leonard is roosters favourite fighter, and he knows it. Years of hollow bashing his career can't hide the truth.
That'll be the day!
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Old 06-30-2008, 10:50 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by redrooster
That'll be the day!

Top tune.
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