Why Ray Leonr isn't a true legend

[redrooster]

Originally Posted by Doubleupthejab

Ray Leonard ducked NO-ONE.. he easily beat Hagler in his 1st fight for 5yrs winning by 9-3rds as for ducking Moore, Mugabi & McCallum Leonard would have KOd all three of them, they was never in the division that Leonard ruled as top-dog.. Ray Leonard was a ATG

Yeah sure he would. Just like he kayoed Terry Norris.

[Sweet Pea]

Leonard was such a great fighter. The definition of a true legend, unlike those punks Tony Ayala and Hector "The Runner" Camacho.

[radianttwilight]

Originally Posted by rekcutnevets

Because this is not a normal fighter we're talking about. It's Ray Leonard, quite possibly boxing's biggest star and talent ever. Any time Ray Leonard is in the ring his opponent is sharing the ring with greatness, and should be grateful. Whether he won or lost in his first encounter with Duran is unimportant. Duran was the one receiving the opportunity with a rematch.


Sorry, I was trying to be as silly as you only coming from another angle.

I don't see how I was being silly when I stated that Duran gave someone a rematch. Fighters that lose don't give rematches, they demand them (and sometimes receive them).

I am not redrooster - I am not arguing against Leonard's place as an ATG in boxing history. I was merely pointing out a fallacy.

Originally Posted by rekcutnevets

I was stating they fought again shortly after their first encounter. You had suggested that Leonard waited 9 years for a rematch. Leonard waited 9 years for a 3rd fight that was all about a pay day with very little in the way of historical significance.

I'm not going to play the redrooster angle here because, again, I am not him. I do find it odd, however, that a rubber match was 9 years seperated from the second fight of the trilogy.

Is there another instance in boxing history where there was such a gap in the fights of an epic trilogy, especially when the first two fights were as legendary as Duran-Leonard I and II?

[redrooster]

Originally Posted by Sweet Pea

Leonard was such a great fighter. The definition of a true legend, unlike those punks Tony Ayala and Hector "The Runner" Camacho.

You mean Hector "the mauler" Camacho because of the way he mauled Leonard into defeat. You do remember the moment Hector's left made impacted Leonard's china chin.

Pop goes the weasel.

[Bokaj]

I have to give it to you Rooster, you persist with perhaps the silliest discussion on this forum no matter how many people tell you this. Normally such crazy bias is expressed towards a fighter (Wealthy Elite's bias towards Tyson being the prime example here), but against? I think it's kind of fun in a way. It sure is strange.

Before his injury enforced lay-off he faced tougher opposition (Benitez, Duran and Hearns) in about 30 fights than most do in their entire career, so what of it if he was somewhat calculated in his comeback? Beating Hagler certainly was one of top 5 achievements in boxing history in any case. I thought Hearns should have won the rematch, but Leonard still showed tons of heart and determination. No shadow on him there.

If you feel that he didn't have a long enough career and solid enough championship reign at any weight to rank in top 10 p4p, so be it. But to call a guy like him a fraud, and doing so over and over? Are you really so pissed off by him beating Hagler and making a fool out of Duran?

[Sweet Pea]

Originally Posted by redrooster

You mean Hector "the mauler" Camacho because of the way he mauled Leonard into defeat. You do remember the moment Hector's left made impacted Leonard's china chin.

Pop goes the weasel.

Speaking of china chins:

[Addie]

Originally Posted by redrooster

You mean Hector "the mauler" Camacho because of the way he mauled Leonard into defeat. You do remember the moment Hector's left made impacted Leonard's china chin.

Pop goes the weasel.

The only possible way to criticise Ray is to bring up his fights when he was a shot fighter. It's credit to how good a prime Sugar Ray Leonard was.

Enjoy one of the very best.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

[redrooster]

Originally Posted by selfkill

The only possible way to criticise Ray is to bring up his fights when he was a shot fighter. It's credit to how good a prime Sugar Ray Leonard was.

I'm not criticizing but Ray just didnt have it up stairs.

The evidence has been there from even his best days: Geraldo, Duran, Howard. That's prime Sugar Ray for you, always having problems.

Leonard could never handle Norris because Norris has the power to make Leonard fear him and the speed to connect whenever he wanted.

[Stonehands89]

Ray Leonard was a great fighter -an all-time great fighter. That really is beyond dispute.

The question is... was he he legend? First, we should come to terms as to what a "legend" is.

[redrooster]

Originally Posted by selfkill

The only possible way to criticise Ray is to bring up his fights when he was a shot fighter. It's credit to how good a prime Sugar Ray Leonard was.

Enjoy one of the very best.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

That video is okay but is too short like his career.

For some real action I recommend:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

[Addie]

Originally Posted by redrooster

I'm not criticizing but Ray just didnt have it up stairs.

The evidence has been there from even his best days: Geraldo, Duran, Howard. That's prime Sugar Ray for you, always having problems.

Leonard could never handle Norris because Norris has the power to make Leonard fear him and the speed to connect whenever he wanted.

Tommy Hearns was extremely fast and was twice the puncher Norris was. Leonard knocked him out and was the first to defeat the man. Terry was just fortunate enough to come along when Ray Leonard was a spent force, and I think he should ever be credited with actually defeating "the" Leonard we saw dominate in the 80s.

Prime Ray Leonard was Benitez, Duran x2, Hearns.

[redrooster]

Originally Posted by selfkill

Tommy Hearns was extremely fast and was twice the puncher Norris was. Leonard knocked him out and was the first to defeat the man. Terry was just fortunate enough to come along when Ray Leonard was a spent force, and I think he should ever be credited with actually defeating "the" Leonard we saw dominate in the 80s.

Prime Ray Leonard was Benitez, Duran x2, Hearns.

You mean Leonard was the lucky one. Lucky he didnt have to contend with the likes of Norris. Unfortunately Terry was born a few years late so us fans could see Leonard with some real competition.

Speaking of the competition, Ray could have given us Micheal Nunn but all we got was uncoordinated stiff Don Lalonde and Kevin Howard over Hitman Hearns and Marvin Hagler.

[redrooster]

Originally Posted by redrooster

That video is okay but is too short like his career.

For some real action I recommend:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

That Terry sure knows how to kick ass!

[TIGEREDGE]

leonard is a legend and ATG no doubt. but i do have a problem when people put him in the top 10 of all time. he never did enough. his prime was too short and that comeback in 1988 was an insult to boxing. leonard is no five weight world champion.

how can you win a light heavyweight title by fighting at super middleweight?

he is a three weight champ at best (if you reckon he beat hagler)

[Longhhorn71]

Don't forget when they tried to match SRL with
Pipino Cuevas, Ray said "no thank you".