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Old 07-23-2007, 02:32 AM   #16
Amsterdam
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Default Re: Could Hopkins Attain ATG Top 10 p4p Status?

A win over Calzaghe at this point, after Calzaghe thrashes Kessler makes him an arguable top 5, much less top 10.
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Old 07-23-2007, 03:00 AM   #17
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Default Re: Could Hopkins Attain ATG Top 10 p4p Status?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
What's funny?

Do you realise that Calzaghe would be a universal best ever at 168, as well as the undisputed Champion?

For Hopkins to defeat the best, who would still be very fresh, as well as pick up the undisputed 168 champ after defeating Tarver for the lineal 175 and Winky(moving up in weight) a top 3 consensus P4P level fighter, you're going to have a tough damn time arguing he's not a top 10 P4P fighter.

Calzaghe's a ****ing physical phenominon, holds a tremendous styles advantage, I feel that Hopkins would lose nearly every round, so for him to conquer that and beat Calzaghe by some specific game plan, for me that would put him in the top 5, especially considering what his record would be if the modern era had 15 round fights where he'd have possibly defeated Jones and would have definitley KOed Taylor late twice...

But go on and tell me why some primitive era guy like Greb would be superior to a Hopkins retirement on a win over an undefeated Joe Calzaghe.
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Old 07-23-2007, 03:11 AM   #18
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Default Re: Could Hopkins Attain ATG Top 10 p4p Status?

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Originally Posted by Amsterdam
Do you realise that Calzaghe would be a universal best ever at 168, as well as the undisputed Champion?
Chong Pal Park competes for the best with Calzaghe at 168lbs (1983 onwards), although Calzaghe probably has taken the #1 spot now.

Calzaghe never has been undisupted champion. From the late 80s onwards that is virtually impossible to achieve.
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Old 07-23-2007, 03:38 AM   #19
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Default Re: Could Hopkins Attain ATG Top 10 p4p Status?

Chagaev is a talented fighter, why does everyone think anyone moving up can beat him?
I thought Maskaev was the likely candidate for that.

Last edited by Asterion; 03-21-2006 at 08:37 PM.
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Old 07-23-2007, 03:50 AM   #20
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Default Re: Could Hopkins Attain ATG Top 10 p4p Status?

No.
If he manages to win a title at heavyweight then all it show is how pathetic that division really is. Frankly, it shows how bad the light heavyweight division is that a 42 year old man can be the champ.

Hopkins was a great middleweight champion, but leat's not get carried away...the Winky fight was a clutch fest, not a boxing match.
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Old 07-23-2007, 05:58 AM   #21
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Default Re: Could Hopkins Attain ATG Top 10 p4p Status?

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Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh
What kind of defence is that?
The best I could come up with at short notice.

I often think abou that kind of thing (Hagler-Leonard, the Lewis KO v McCall) and how it might have panned out in a different era. I'm not suggesting it's proof of anything other than Hopkins was far from outclassed.
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Old 07-23-2007, 06:13 AM   #22
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Default Re: Could Hopkins Attain ATG Top 10 p4p Status?

To me the issue with rating him so high is that he was never THAT THAT THAT great in his prime. Sure he has aged nicely, and continues to fight at an elite level, but at his absolute best, there were still many, many fighters better than him.

So what I'm saying is, in terms of longevity and resume sure he'd be up there, but in terms of ability and head to head comparisons, he'll never be near the very top becuase his very best is not as good as quite a few other fighters.

Right now, I dont think I'd have him top 40, but a few more good wins and he could move into the 30's.

I'll always find it hard to place him above Roy Jones though, who himself is in the 30's for me.
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Old 07-23-2007, 06:21 AM   #23
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Default Re: Could Hopkins Attain ATG Top 10 p4p Status?

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Originally Posted by sweet_scientist
To me the issue with rating him so high is that he was never THAT THAT THAT great in his prime. Sure he has aged nicely, and continues to fight at an elite level, but at his absolute best, there were still many, many fighters better than him.

So what I'm saying is, in terms of longevity and resume sure he'd be up there, but in terms of ability and head to head comparisons, he'll never be near the very top becuase his very best is not as good as quite a few other fighters.
The above is just your opinion tho and not definite fact. Like Holmes, at their absolute peak we didn't see them vs other greats, unlike say SRL, Duran, Benitez, Hagler and Hearn's. You might not rate Hopkins THAT THAT THAT great a fighter or head to head, but plenty of others will. Some rate a Holmes easily top 3 head to head ever, others might not even have him 10. Personally i think both ARE supremely good/great head to head. One mans trash can be anothers treasure of course.

I have the underlying feeling you also think Chavez is getting a bit underdone around here just recently, and if so i'd have to say i totally agree.
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Old 07-23-2007, 06:52 AM   #24
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Default Re: Could Hopkins Attain ATG Top 10 p4p Status?

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Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
The above is just your opinion tho and not definite fact. Like Holmes, at their absolute peak we didn't see them vs other greats, unlike say SRL, Duran, Benitez, Hagler and Hearn's. You might not rate Hopkins THAT THAT THAT great a fighter or head to head, but plenty of others will. Some rate a Holmes easily top 3 head to head ever, others might not even have him 10. Personally i think both ARE supremely good/great head to head. One mans trash can be anothers treasure of course.

I have the underlying feeling you also think Chavez is getting a bit underdone around here just recently, and if so i'd have to say i totally agree.
Of course, that's just my opinion. But if you leave it open for Bernard Hopkins to compete with the very best, is it any more rediculous to say someone like Shane Mosley could compete with the best, and that if he beats a Miguel Cotto or Ricky Hatton he could make top 10?

If you say no becuase Shane lost to Forrest, Wright or say DLH, well you could make the argument that Hopkins lost to Taylor and Wright (and of course to Roy).
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Old 07-23-2007, 07:05 AM   #25
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Default Re: Could Hopkins Attain ATG Top 10 p4p Status?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
In the next two years? What do you think?

Say he beats Calzaghe/Kessler, pretty convincingly, then climbs up to heavyweight and grabs a strap, then retires.

He'd have 20 defences at Middle, champ at 168, ring champ at 175 plus strap holder at heavy.

Could he scale top 10 heights? How about top 20?
I have ajob placing him in thre top ten Middleweights!
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Old 07-23-2007, 07:23 AM   #26
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Default Re: Could Hopkins Attain ATG Top 10 p4p Status?

What would you do with him if he beat Kessler/Calzaghe and then Chagaev?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvey
I have ajob placing him in thre top ten Middleweights!
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Old 07-23-2007, 07:24 AM   #27
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Default Re: Could Hopkins Attain ATG Top 10 p4p Status?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweet_scientist
Of course, that's just my opinion. But if you leave it open for Bernard Hopkins to compete with the very best, is it any more rediculous to say someone like Shane Mosley could compete with the best, and that if he beats a Miguel Cotto or Ricky Hatton he could make top 10?

If you say no becuase Shane lost to Forrest, Wright or say DLH, well you could make the argument that Hopkins lost to Taylor and Wright (and of course to Roy).
Shane lost pretty close to his peak, Hopkins definitely didn't. The comparison is stretched to me. Hopkins defences, his unifications and numerous years unbeaten and solid peak hammer anything Shane has done. I'm not debating the thread topic, the top 10 spot. It's not out of the question Bhop might still be able to make 10-20 possibly tho, who knows.
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Old 07-23-2007, 07:33 AM   #28
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Default Re: Could Hopkins Attain ATG Top 10 p4p Status?

Archie Moore probably doesn't get into the Top 10 spot, so Hopkins doesn't have much hope. If he beats Wlad I'll re-consider it.
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Old 07-23-2007, 07:34 AM   #29
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Default Re: Could Hopkins Attain ATG Top 10 p4p Status?

Quote:
Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh
Archie Moore probably doesn't get into the Top 10 spot, so Hopkins doesn't have much hope. If he beats Wlad I'll re-consider it.
You're going to have to show me your list now...
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Old 07-23-2007, 07:34 AM   #30
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Default Re: Could Hopkins Attain ATG Top 10 p4p Status?

Quote:
Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh
Archie Moore probably doesn't get into the Top 10 spot, so Hopkins doesn't have much hope. If he beats Wlad I'll re-consider it.
You're generousity is only exceeded by your Myth Busting prowess.
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