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Old 07-05-2008, 09:58 PM   #1
dpw417
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Default Jake LaMotta vs. Roberto Duran

Do you remember the scene in "Raging Bull" where Jake's wife Vicki remarked in passing that she thought Tony Janiro was 'good looking'? After hearing that, LaMotta raged after Janiro in their fight, and wanted to make him ugly...by literally trying to beat his face in.

" Jake is some kind of animal."
- Ray Robinson

During the Roberto Duran/Davey Moore fight at MSG in New York, Jake and Vicki provided color commentary for the fight. Vicki marveled at the atmosphere of the arena, Duran's skill, and his age (32) at that time...Jake commented,"I was done at 32"...

What would the dynamic have been for a LaMotta/Duran fight? Can you imagine it? In the lead up to his fight with Leonard in Montreal, Duran went into a tirade spewing obsenities towards Leonard and his wife, calling her a 'whore' among other things and insinuating that Ray wasn't a real man...Duran wanted to get inside Leonard's head...He wanted to make him berserk with rage...and he did. He made Leonard... 'blink'.

What would happen if Duran tried to make a jealous psychopath 'blink'?
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Old 07-06-2008, 04:52 AM   #2
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Default Re: Jake LaMotta vs. Roberto Duran

LaMotta is a bit too big and strong for Duran's much superior skill IMO. I see Jake via decision in hard fought matches everytime.
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Old 07-06-2008, 06:25 AM   #3
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Default Re: Jake LaMotta vs. Roberto Duran

I think Duran would be biting off more than he could chew. Duran would lose to LaMotta for the same reason I believe he would lose to Ayala.....Duran is a blown up lightweight here. His opponent is bigger, stronger and hits harder. I don't see him being able to keep pace or withstand an enraged Jake's pressure and power for too long. LaMotta by mid to late rounds KO/TKO.
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Old 07-06-2008, 07:06 AM   #4
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Default Re: Jake LaMotta vs. Roberto Duran

Lamotta wasnt such a big puncher and his pressure fighting style plays into the hands of Duran who would outbox slip and counter. Lamottas size and strength makes it close like the Barkley fight. I think Duran could win a UD here because his skill is from another level.
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Old 07-06-2008, 07:42 AM   #5
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Default Re: Jake LaMotta vs. Roberto Duran

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuncher
Lamotta wasnt such a big puncher and his pressure fighting style plays into the hands of Duran who would outbox slip and counter. Lamottas size and strength makes it close like the Barkley fight. I think Duran could win a UD here because his skill is from another level.
Don't discount LaMotta's size, aggression and output wearing Duran down. Even the best version of Duran vs Hagler got quite tired in places and Hagler didn't pressure him much. LaMotta would give absolutely no respite.

LaMotta is a very underrated middleweight.
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Old 07-06-2008, 09:19 AM   #6
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Default Re: Jake LaMotta vs. Roberto Duran

Quote:
Originally Posted by laxpdx
I think Duran would be biting off more than he could chew. Duran would lose to LaMotta for the same reason I believe he would lose to Ayala.....Duran is a blown up lightweight here. His opponent is bigger, stronger and hits harder. I don't see him being able to keep pace or withstand an enraged Jake's pressure and power for too long. LaMotta by mid to late rounds KO/TKO.
LaMotta DID NOT hit harder than Duran. Maybe you meant to say that Ayala hit harder, and maybe he did, but not Jake. He was stronger by far than Duran and took punishment better, but that's it.
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Old 07-06-2008, 02:25 PM   #7
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Default Re: Jake LaMotta vs. Roberto Duran

Quote:
Originally Posted by laxpdx
I think Duran would be biting off more than he could chew. Duran would lose to LaMotta for the same reason I believe he would lose to Ayala.....Duran is a blown up lightweight here. His opponent is bigger, stronger and hits harder. I don't see him being able to keep pace or withstand an enraged Jake's pressure and power for too long. LaMotta by mid to late rounds KO/TKO.
Ayala was comparatively a puppy.

Duran would have toyed with the inexperienced little sociopath and then gave him a beating at the doctoral level.

LaMotta was a different story. JT makes the cogent point that he was physically very strong and would apply relentless pressure over 15. Power Puncher makes a good point that Duran did well with come-forward agressive guys because their strength became their weakness. Barkley was bigger and stronger than LaMotta and it didn't matter enough against a 37 year old Duran. Hagler outboxed him but he brought unique complexity that LaMotta wouldn't. I also don't beleive that LaMotta had the kind of leaden presence that rock-hard Hagler had in there. However, LaMotta's skill is still underrated. He knew many tricks -perhaps enough to at least rival Duran himself.

Tough call.
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Old 07-06-2008, 08:56 PM   #8
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Default Re: Jake LaMotta vs. Roberto Duran

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonehands89
Ayala was comparatively a puppy.

Duran would have toyed with the inexperienced little sociopath and then gave him a beating at the doctoral level.

LaMotta was a different story. JT makes the cogent point that he was physically very strong and would apply relentless pressure over 15. Power Puncher makes a good point that Duran did well with come-forward agressive guys because their strength became their weakness. Barkley was bigger and stronger than LaMotta and it didn't matter enough against a 37 year old Duran. Hagler outboxed him but he brought unique complexity that LaMotta wouldn't. I also don't beleive that LaMotta had the kind of leaden presence that rock-hard Hagler had in there. However, LaMotta's skill is still underrated. He knew many tricks -perhaps enough to at least rival Duran himself.

Tough call.
While Barkley was a very big middleweight (he looked like a light heavy in teh Duran fight) I don't think that Barkley was stronger than LaMotta. LaMotta definitely had the stronger mandible and I would say he definitely possessed the stronger core strength as well. LaMotta went against some brutal punchers namely Robinson (even at welter, a great hitter), Marshall, Satterfield and Murphy. Barkley demonstrated the ability to go to heavyweight and managed to beat a shop worn Coetzee, but at middle? LaMotta was the stronger and more resilent fighter IMO.
Addendum: I also feel that LaMotta would have had more physicality in the ring than Hagler. Hagler was a rock hard, spartan...but he was not a large framed middleweight. No doubt in my mind LaMotta is a stronger middleweight than Hagler. a stronger Middleweight than LaMotta? Try Dick Tiger.
Last point.
Duran I feel would have his moments against the onrushing, LaMotta. He excelled when the opponents came to him (it made Duran's job easier.)i'm glad LaMotta is getting some props for his fighting ability not just his chin, but Duran is so much slicker and trickier, with the angles he gives. I feel Duran would gradually get fatigued due to the weight and overall pressure. I'll pick LaMotta by UD.
PS I think the press conference for this fight would be some spectacle. This fight would sell a few PPV's.

Last edited by dpw417; 07-06-2008 at 09:15 PM.
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Old 07-06-2008, 09:20 PM   #9
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Default Re: Jake LaMotta vs. Roberto Duran

Jake was the bully and could not be bullied, his natural weight was bigger, Duran was the best @ 135 and even though he gave Hagler a tough go, I think Lamotta had a tough style and strong....Jake UD but close
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Old 07-06-2008, 10:38 PM   #10
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Default Re: Jake LaMotta vs. Roberto Duran

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpw417
While Barkley was a very big middleweight (he looked like a light heavy in teh Duran fight) I don't think that Barkley was stronger than LaMotta. LaMotta definitely had the stronger mandible and I would say he definitely possessed the stronger core strength as well. LaMotta went against some brutal punchers namely Robinson (even at welter, a great hitter), Marshall, Satterfield and Murphy. Barkley demonstrated the ability to go to heavyweight and managed to beat a shop worn Coetzee, but at middle? LaMotta was the stronger and more resilent fighter IMO.
Addendum: I also feel that LaMotta would have had more physicality in the ring than Hagler. Hagler was a rock hard, spartan...but he was not a large framed middleweight. No doubt in my mind LaMotta is a stronger middleweight than Hagler. a stronger Middleweight than LaMotta? Try Dick Tiger.
Last point.
Duran I feel would have his moments against the onrushing, LaMotta. He excelled when the opponents came to him (it made Duran's job easier.)i'm glad LaMotta is getting some props for his fighting ability not just his chin, but Duran is so much slicker and trickier, with the angles he gives. I feel Duran would gradually get fatigued due to the weight and overall pressure. I'll pick LaMotta by UD.
PS I think the press conference for this fight would be some spectacle. This fight would sell a few PPV's.
Jake Lamotta did not have a larger frame than Hagler and I tend to doubt that he was stronger than Hagler -not even his famous chin was stronger than Hagler's for my money. In terms of physical presence, Barkley was far larger than LaMotta although perhaps Jake was stronger inside. I just don't see 5'8 Jake wearing Duran down if Iran, with all that long armed pressure and heavier punching could not. Duran managed to get about 4 or 5 "second winds" in that bout. He did tire against Hagler though in the last 2 rounds -and against Simms for that matter.

However, I'd lean ever so slightly in favor or Duran. Duran was very strong too, let's not forget that. Lamotta would not just "boss him around" because Duran would not have to contend with the heavy punching that Hagler and Iran bombed him with -or a long reach.

Duran may give up the strength factor -but how often did he not sacrifice this after 1978?? Duran adapted his game to his age and bigger, younger men. Against Lamotta Duran would be faster, hit at least as hard, had a comparable chin, and better skills. Add to that the point that his skills had evolved by the time he was facing JMWs into a set designed to deal with younger, aggressive, stronger guys.

I see Duran fighting Jake similarly to the way he fought Hagler -only Jake would fight Duran like Hagler was expected to. Duran may not have beaten Hagler even at his best MW condition, but Hagler was an elite of the division. He had too much, whereas Jake doesn't bring quite enough.

Again --superior physical strength and pressure against an inspired MW Duran is not enough. Duran proved that again and again.
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Old 07-07-2008, 06:31 PM   #11
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Default Re: Jake LaMotta vs. Roberto Duran

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonehands89
Ayala was comparatively a puppy.

Duran would have toyed with the inexperienced little sociopath and then gave him a beating at the doctoral level.
I respect your opinion!
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Old 07-07-2008, 07:04 PM   #12
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Default Re: Jake LaMotta vs. Roberto Duran

LaMotta is a huge favourite peak for peak. LaMotta beat Robinson for chrissake.
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Old 07-07-2008, 07:38 PM   #13
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Default Re: Jake LaMotta vs. Roberto Duran

Duran would spend most of the time lying on the ropes getting outworked.
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Old 07-08-2008, 09:47 AM   #14
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Default Re: Jake LaMotta vs. Roberto Duran

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
LaMotta is a huge favourite peak for peak. LaMotta beat Robinson for chrissake.
I wouldn't forget that 16 pound weight advantage in there for LaMotta.
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Old 07-08-2008, 10:05 AM   #15
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Default Re: Jake LaMotta vs. Roberto Duran

Duran got clearly, if not completely, outboxed by Hagler. I think that in and of itself is a worry for Duran, because his key advantage in his fight with Lamotta is supposed to be his skill.

If he is getting clearly outboxed by Hagler, I don't see exactly what chance he'd have of keeping Lamotta off him, and since I don't think he can, I don't see what type of chance he'd have outduking Lamotta in the trenches.

I can't really see the relevance of the Barkley fight here. Barkley was a good puncher, but totally lacking in infighting nous. If you want to draw the implication from the Barkley fight that Duran can take any punch Lamotta has to give him, that's fine. But this fight isn't going to be decided by who can knock who out. It will be decided by who will impose himself on the other, and I see Lamotta doing that more often than not thoughout a fight.
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